Wang Junxia - Was she on peds or was she on PEDs???

how is this even up for debate? If any womans records are 100% dirty its the Chinese women and Flojo/Krachtochvilova

D1 Bro wrote:

uygu wrote:

Someone needs to take a second look at the race. And 41 seconds is nowhere near flat out sprinting.

It's 54.6s 400 pace... pretty fast for anyone not named El G

clearly it does relate. I just formatted it wrong maybe you didnt notice the person before me said 41 sec for a 300 is not even close to all out sprinting.

Then I said, it is 54.6s/400m pace (simple calculation) and the rest was implied (that is fast for an opening 300 for anybody that wasn't running El G's world record pace (~55s/400m) (for that distance), especially for a female 1500 runner, which rarely would have a PB in the 400m much faster than 54.6s)

D1 Bro wrote:

clearly it does relate. I just formatted it wrong maybe you didnt notice the person before me said 41 sec for a 300 is not even close to all out sprinting.

Then I said, it is 54.6s/400m pace (simple calculation) and the rest was implied (that is fast for an opening 300 for anybody that wasn't running El G's world record pace (~55s/400m) (for that distance), especially for a female 1500 runner, which rarely would have a PB in the 400m much faster than 54.6s)

A 3:50 runner would not rarely have faster than 54.6 400 speed. That's a perfectly fine and reasonable level of 400 speed.

It doesn't relate the way you originally wrote it so there was nothing "clear" about it.

The pace isn't enough to scream drugs when you look at how fast the following laps were. They took it out fact. Happens in men's races sometimes too.

kskdk wrote:

D1 Bro wrote:

Clearly they have some type of natural advantage.

That's a far fetched conclusion. There are plenty of other possible explanations (including different levels of interest between countries). Comparing whole populations is dumb.

Normally I would agree with the latter statement, but the numbers were not at all close. I mean 0 medals to a ton, and 3 billion people to 0.3 billion people and over the course of 30 years is statistically significant. I would say it implies more than correlation and can't be knocked down by saying interest is "lower" (a relative and subjective term)

Compare it to the US: interest is significantly lower in distance running here, there are 0.3 billion people and the US has won multiple distance medals in the past 30 years.

If 50% of East African males are interested in running, there are about 75mil males interested (not breaking down age demographics)

If 5% of US males are: 7.5 mil males

If 1% of Asians are: 15 mil males

obviously it's exaggerated for East Africa. Some people don't do sports, there's competition with soccer and maybe a couple other sports, (and more limited resources). It still shows the US is doing good with male distance running global medal count over the past ~30 yrs, East Africa is doing good, and Asia (with their zero) is more than just low.

does anyone think they are legit?

uygu wrote:

The pace isn't enough to scream drugs when you look at how fast the following laps were. They took it out fact. Happens in men's races sometimes too.

Agreed, I was just saying that the statement "41s for 300m is nowhere near all out sprinting (for a female 3:50 1500m runner (at the beginning of a race))" is false. I believe that is very close to a sprint for said runner. I didn't even know the origin of that argument, I just disagreed with one of the opposing points.

Those were leader splits by world champion Lui, who was not allowed to compete or finish the race, so she was hyped out, went out too fast and the others followed.

Wang was hanging on for dear life at that point.

The eyeball split of 41 was probably not accurate anyway, and again that was for Lui, not everyone else. A 41 high would be 57 or 58 for 400m and anyway they aren't comparable.

Didn't they hit 2:02 at the 800m? Of course the pace was fast to run a 3:50 world record.

The analogue to Wang Junxia in cycling is Geneviève Jeanson. Had Jeanson competed against men in an uphill time trials at the U.S. elite pro level, she would have been on the podium--she was that strong. Jeanson dominated the women so much that it was just astounding--single-handedly defeating whole pelotons in stages of road races. Of course, Jeanson later admitted to taking EPO since she was a girl. Just an unbelievable physiological response to doping. For whatever reason, EPO works on women really, really well. Jeanson said that she took EPO a lot, but note that was only first caught based on her overly high hematocrit level in 2003. That's all you need to know about the women's records from the 90s and 2000s in any serious aerobic endurance sport.

D1 Bro wrote:

Agreed, I was just saying that the statement "41s for 300m is nowhere near all out sprinting (for a female 3:50 1500m runner (at the beginning of a race))" is false. I believe that is very close to a sprint for said runner. I didn't even know the origin of that argument, I just disagreed with one of the opposing points.

It's not close to an all out sprint. A 3:50 1500m could easily be able to run 300m in 39 seconds. I suppose it's a matter of opinion on what "close" means, but I wouldn't expect 2 seconds in a 300m race to be considered close.

DOES A DUCK QUACK , what sound does chinese runner make ?

americans dope ,chinese dope is not the point .

it is all about the window of opportunity ,

the timing ,the backing ,lots of circumstances

coming together when a new ped comes online .

and thats what happened here her coach put the best

package together in world and before and since due to

testing .

SO like many an athlete before it is the testing that

makes the legacy of all these athletes ,your sprinters

and so on .so f##### absurd .

all want to ENHANCE legacy and jump on anti-doping

bandwagon knowing increases likelyhood that no athlete

will approach what they achieved .all so dishonest

testing is problem ,stop the testing .

f##### your anti -doping petition skins and ben

all self promotion .

just look at jamicans et all and lightness lr3

to see such a window .jamicans putting that package

together due to no testing in country during off season

basically have the backing of federation and some new

peds to work with in race season .like s4 and the piece de resistance as forementioned.

when these things collide ,they come together .

definitely more than just

epo at work here regardless of cyclist .

if just epo explain why ethiopians ,russians etc

havent been able to get remotely close to 1500m time as

had many a chance up till late 2000's .

definitely your more feminine steroids in use

here ,as stated before and why and had the opportunity

to get away with it when just raced in china .

that added speed from winstrol and hct to die for and 1500m

here we come .

if they were tested by federation proves nothing .

,just simply stop winstrol afew weeks before ( ~3 weeks )

and maintain most of enhancement with feminine dose of

testosterone to get them into natural high upper range for

ladies .

wang had the speed and the endurance ,

simply why she was the focus .

definitely more than just

epo at work here regardless of cyclist .

if just epo explain why ethiopians ,russians etc

havent been able to get remotely close to 1500m time as

had many a chance up till late 2000's .

definitely your more feminine steroids in use

here ,as stated before and why and had the opportunity

to get away with it when just raced in china .

that added speed from winstrol and hct to die for and 1500m

here we come .

if they were tested by federation proves nothing .

,just simply stop winstrol afew weeks before ( ~3 weeks )

and maintain most of enhancement with feminine dose of

testosterone to get them into natural high upper range for

ladies .

wang had the speed and the endurance ,

simply why she was the focus .

sorry just went quakers and replied twise..

if no 3 times .

I was a 1:52.9 800m, 3:41.2 1500m runner, and a sub four miler. 39 seconds for 300m was flat out for me with running starts. Do you know that 39 for 300m is 52 second pace for 400m? I'm a 6 foot male. No way in hell those tiny Chinese women shuffled 41-42 for the first 300m.

Watch a men's 3:30 1500m race go out at 41-42 pace. Those guys are moving. The tiny Chinese women are shuffling along.

The unbelievably fast 300m split followed by slower splits reveals that the 1500m start line was probably moved up.

bigup wrote:

I was a 1:52.9 800m, 3:41.2 1500m runner, and a sub four miler. 39 seconds for 300m was flat out for me with running starts. Do you know that 39 for 300m is 52 second pace for 400m? I'm a 6 foot male. No way in hell those tiny Chinese women shuffled 41-42 for the first 300m.

Watch a men's 3:30 1500m race go out at 41-42 pace. Those guys are moving. The tiny Chinese women are shuffling along.

The unbelievably fast 300m split followed by slower splits reveals that the 1500m start line was probably moved up.

Find me a single 3:30.xx race where the leader hit 42 anything at 300m.

42.2 is 56.26 pace which is solid if you want to run 3:32. But these women were slowing as they hit 300m as evidenced by their 400m split and subsequent splits.

It's insane for a woman to go out and blast the first 300m of a 1500m like that. Unless she's of unnatural ability as these women were. What's more likely: that every PED under the sun and brutal training resulted in women that could run times otherwise completely impossible or Omega's Swiss timers someone missed a faulty start line when arranging their timing equipment (and only for the women's running events)?

There are about six tribes from East Africa that dominate the world, from 800m to the marathon. Even though soccer is by far the most popular sport in Kenya and Ethiopia, there nearly all of those countries' athletic success comes from middle and long distance runners that belong to one of a few select tribes.

D1 Bro wrote:

clearly it does relate. I just formatted it wrong maybe you didnt notice the person before me said 41 sec for a 300 is not even close to all out sprinting.

Then I said, it is 54.6s/400m pace (simple calculation) and the rest was implied (that is fast for an opening 300 for anybody that wasn't running El G's world record pace (~55s/400m) (for that distance), especially for a female 1500 runner, which rarely would have a PB in the 400m much faster than 54.6s)

No 1500m record in this era goes out at even pace for 300m. And the women didn't run 41 anything for 300m. Qu hit 300m in 42.5 (56.7 pace) before hitting 400m in 57.2.

What is this fascination with crucifying the Chinese runners? You do know that everybody cheats, right? Is it the fact that they cheated to a higher degree? Does it make the runners that we admire yet probably also cheated look a little more legit?

The Chinese cheated, the Finns cheated,the Russians cheated, the Spanish cheated, the Italians cheated,the East Germans cheated, the Moroccans cheated, our sprinters cheated, Athletic West cheated, our NOP thyroid boys cheated. Even the East Africans cheated. What's the difference?

Perhaps it's like the poster describes above, when its tiny Chinese women cheating there way to the record books it really sticks in our craw. Cheating should be left to our fleet-footed Kenyans and NOPers.

bigup wrote:

I was a 1:52.9 800m, 3:41.2 1500m runner, and a sub four miler. 39 seconds for 300m was flat out for me with running starts. Do you know that 39 for 300m is 52 second pace for 400m? I'm a 6 foot male. No way in hell those tiny Chinese women shuffled 41-42 for the first 300m.

Watch a men's 3:30 1500m race go out at 41-42 pace. Those guys are moving. The tiny Chinese women are shuffling along.

The unbelievably fast 300m split followed by slower splits reveals that the 1500m start line was probably moved up.

They didn't run 39 second pace for 400m. They ran it for less than 300m. Height has nothing to do with this.