Wang Junxia - Was she on peds or was she on PEDs???

Nutella1 wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Both are ludicrous.

OK, if it was drugs, which drugs? Testosterone? Steroids? EPO? HGH? Blood Doping? All of the above?

According to Canova, drugs work well for mediocre athletes to get to elite levels but not for WR caliber. So did they invent some kind of miracle drug? Why has no one else used it since?

--> Track was short.

Nutella - you are an Idiot.

That is not what Canova said - he claimed that those raised at altitude and already at a world-class level wouldn't benefit from EPO. Rather logical if your tiny brain bothers to accept the logic of it. Anyone from sea level would benefit, regardless of their performance level.

The "community" doesn't think the track was short - only a few misguided conspiracy theorists from LRC think that insanity.

It is certainly possible (nay probable), that Wang was on PED's at the time of those records - as mentioned Ma Junren was an unscrupulous abuser. They did train very hard - a lot harder than any Americans (women) likely have - in a group situation, in an environment that would have brought criminal charges in a "Western" setting.

Radcliffe is an example of what can be done with the right psychological mindset and bloody-mindedness to get it done even on your own, and enough talent to adapt and benefit from the training. As Gerard Hartmann said (if you don't know who he is then please leave this forum as you don't deserve a voice here) - she had the highest pain tolerance of any athlete he had known. She was a world XC Junior champion (ahead of Wang, who also medalled in that race - Boston 1992), whose lack of finishing speed compelled her to work harder than anyone other female had (before or likely even now), which has also meant that she has destroyed her body - one reason why she has struggled through many injuries over the past number of years (much like Deanna Kastor I suppose as well). I believe that if she had medalled on the track (Olympics/Worlds) in earlier years then she would never have done the work that allowed her to run so fast on the roads. All those 4th place finishes (leading then constantly getting outkicked) led to the Marathon runner she became later. It's not like she was slow, however, with PR's of 8.22, 14.29 and 30.01 (what are the American records again?). Anyone who saw that 30.01 knows that she could have gone faster in better conditions and with any competition or a even a rabbitt. Many athletes only have a limited time at their very best - a window of a few years where they can approach record levels - if they are training truly at the maximal (not necessarily optimal if they want a long career) level and hers was around 2000-2003 (up to 30 years old).

Maybe Wang was on PEDs, don't know, but what about the russian gal from the 70s, she looked like a tree stump and ran 3:53 and 1:53, cheat cheat cheater!

Nutella1 wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

And no one talked?

It is engraved in Chinese culture not to raise your voice against the authorities.

Omega is a Swiss company.

Nutella1 wrote:

college kid wrote:

There is no way the existing 3k world record was broken after 7k at 10k world record pace. Simply not possible.

THIS

How is that not possible? Women's running is very weak. Especially up to that point, the records were even weaker. I just don't see this as a good point.

Well you're not alone.

Oh, wait, you are alone, sorry.

worst poster wrote:

Well you're not alone.

Oh, wait, you are alone, sorry.

What does being or not being alone have to do with anything?

why is doping even up for debate here .joking me .

clear as day!!!!!! and if being injected with epo

obviously know what is going on ,cant blame coach ....

not something can put in a drink and say take this .

the fast 1500m show that using more than just epo

or blood doping ,as does volume of training .

like with fast times for such events for eastern block

ladies but they didnt have epo and blood transfusing just not

as good.why seb coe was that good , imagine if had epo.

not going to make same mistake as e.germans with steroids when comes to women and use

crazy doses ,so no need to look like men and be dead give away .

forget 60 per cent hct,miss 60 per cent ,they could of gone

even higher with added blood transfusion on day of race

and then take as much blood out as nessary so that dont

bloody!!!!! kill oneself .

a stupidly high hct where need backing of medical

team that easialy have.

obviously not just the high hct that produced times but

hard training and without steroids not possible .

so many factors coming together regardless of standard of womens records . steroids not just for recovery but basic strength and be able to hold technique and good form throughout race is obviously more advanagteous to birds.

one of big differences is this amongst sexes where difference supposedly less in terms of endurance .

"Was she on peds or was she on PEDS???"

OR WAS SHE ON PEDS???

How dare those foreigners run so fast without drugs, heck we take lots of drugs in the USA and don't come close to them!

Their story about hard work doesn't make any sense, we here in the USA know that drugs are much better, and just doing a few strides now and then.

Do you know what pace 41-42 through the first 300m is? It's world record pace for the MEN'S 1500m.

USA Whiner wrote:

How dare those foreigners run so fast without drugs, heck we take lots of drugs in the USA and don't come close to them!

Their story about hard work doesn't make any sense, we here in the USA know that drugs are much better, and just doing a few strides now and then.

Blah, blah, blah. Post about Flo Jo, Mary Decker or Regina Jacobs around here and you'll get the same opinions expressed as with Wang Junxia.

Anyhow, wAnG jUnXiA wAs oN pEds.

41 seconds for 300m is flat out sprinting speed for a 3:50 1500m runner. Have you ever tried running the first 300m of a 1500m at your max sprinting speed?

bigup wrote:

Do you know what pace 41-42 through the first 300m is? It's world record pace for the MEN'S 1500m.

They hit 300m in 42.2. Splits of:

400m 57.2

800m 2:00.8 (63.6)

1200m 3:05.2 (64.4)

1500m 3:50.46 (45.26)

Their first 300m was obviously ridiculously quick, but by the time they had three laps to go, they were slowing (before kicking it back up for the final 300m)

So was Flojo. So was Marita Koch. On PEDs, that is.

First of all, paula is a filthy cheating doper.

Second, we shouldn't worry about anyone else doping until we get rid of those scumbag NOPe cheatingassbitches.

bigup wrote:

41 seconds for 300m is flat out sprinting speed for a 3:50 1500m runner. Have you ever tried running the first 300m of a 1500m at your max sprinting speed?

Someone needs to take a second look at the race. And 41 seconds is nowhere near flat out sprinting.

kskdk wrote:

D1 Bro wrote:

On the mens side, let's be honest: I doubt any Chinese man, even on PEDs, would have the ability to win a global medal against the superior genetics of the East Africans. So why try with the PEDs?

Exactly what superior genetics are those?

Not trying to stereotype, just observing trends...

East African men probably take at least 50% of the global track and field distance medals (estimated). Their combined population is about 3% of the world's population (est.). Clearly they have some type of natural advantage.

Asian men (including at least China, India, Japan, Koreas, Southeast Asia, Indonesia) take about 0% of global track and field distance medals. Their combined population is over 40% of the world's population.

See my point?

It's not just because Asian men have a low interest in running either, because you can apply that to every major world sport. There are hardly any Asian men in the NBA (~3?) zero 100% Asians in the NFL (I know not fair they probably have low interest), low amount in the MLB, Very low in EPL/la liga/ bundesliga/ serie a etc..

uygu wrote:

bigup wrote:

41 seconds for 300m is flat out sprinting speed for a 3:50 1500m runner. Have you ever tried running the first 300m of a 1500m at your max sprinting speed?

Someone needs to take a second look at the race. And 41 seconds is nowhere near flat out sprinting.

It's 54.6s 400 pace... pretty fast for anyone not named El G

D1 Bro wrote:

Clearly they have some type of natural advantage.

That's a far fetched conclusion. There are plenty of other possible explanations (including different levels of interest between countries). Comparing whole populations is dumb.