Official Women's 800 Final- IAAF World Championship

What about Nick?

Pulled a Muscle Yawning wrote:

Darwinian wrote:

To be fair, the sit and kick is criticized in the 1500-10000 races, not the 800.{/b]

Agreed. The 800 is a completely different animal from races 1500 and up. Running hard (not sprinting) from the start of a distance race is courageous and honest. Blasting the first lap of an 800 is a stupid "fly-n-die" approach. I still wonder if we'll ever see a world class 800 runner who is smart enough to pursue a negative split race.

Nodge wrote:

Russian might have cause Wilson a medal,bounce her around pretty good should be dq.

Wilson was running strong the last 100. Ekaterina Poistogova should have been DQ'd. Just before contact Wilson appeared to be about one meter behind Martinez but holding her own against Brenda. Without contact Wilson would have beaten Poistogova. Montano also? I think so.

Darwinian wrote:

To be fair, the sit and kick is criticized in the 1500-10000 races, not the 800.

Even pace is not the same as sit and kick.

Cal Bear Alum wrote:

She was ready to run FAST.

did u watch the race

Montano's 600m time was 1:27.57

Cal Bear Alum wrote:

You must be either new to the Sport of Track and Field, or new to seeing Alysia run. She ALWAYS leads thru the 1/4 and wins wire-to-wire. She's a FIVE TIME USATF NATIONAL CHAMPION, and has won the 800m Nationals four years straight.

If you were to look at EVERY single race that she has won, she leads through the 1/4, and usually comes thru in a high 56 or mid-57

She is the American record holder in the indoor 600m at 1:23.59 which she posted THIS year.

She ran 1:57.75 at Paris THIS year.

She was ready to run FAST.

You don't even understand what you're saying. Everyone in this thread agrees she always runs this way, we just think she's stupid to do so. She goes out too hard when she wins, she goes out too hard when she loses, and then sometimes says she should have gone out harder! She wins at USATF Nationals because the competition is much weaker than her (not just a little weaker, a lot weaker), and they're weaker than her competitors at the World Championships and Olympics. But she gets stomped on the rare occasion that she comes across competitors with the same fitness level as her because her tactics are suboptimal. Everyone knows it. I don't mean this maliciously, but her stubbornness makes me think she has some major self-confidence issues.

She should learn from Symmonds. Sure she makes nationals a lot, so did Symmonds, however, winning a top caliber competitions may require slight adjustments and that is what experienced athletes do. Even in football, baseball, or any other sport unless a team is vastly superior than any other, good teams/coaches tailor their match to that of their current opponents instead of a one-size-fits-all approach. Symmonds has now had the performance of his career in the last couple of months by realize that even if he has superior last 400M strength, it doesn't help you if you are too far behind to start with. That right there is maturity. Even the very best struggle with this. Look at Kiprops ridiculous losses when he used to remain "cool" in the back because he knew he could run everyone down the last 300M. I know it is Montano's signature to push the way she does and she will probably win other national championship races this way, but I can guarantee if she doesn't adjust this, she will lose more than she can win at international races. Now, this doesn't mean that Montano should stop running from the front but she needs to do it wisely. Best example I can think is Rudisha. He has 400M PRs in 45s and therefore could run the 1st 400M in an 800M in 46-47 and try to hold the rest of the guys but would this be the best strategy? Doesn't mean he still couldn't win, but a mature athlete knows the risk of this approach in a world-class race.

Weaker at USAs? She ran the exact same way at USAs this year and BEAT both Martinez and Wilson, who were third and sixth today. That's not weak. Luck just wasn't on her side today. Any other day, the results could be different. Don't be surprised if she wins gold at Worlds in two years or an Olympic title in Rio.

Another Cal Bear Alum wrote:

You don't even understand what you're saying. Everyone in this thread agrees she always runs this way, we just think she's stupid to do so. She goes out too hard when she wins, she goes out too hard when she loses, and then sometimes says she should have gone out harder! She wins at USATF Nationals because the competition is much weaker than her (not just a little weaker, a lot weaker), and they're weaker than her competitors at the World Championships and Olympics. But she gets stomped on the rare occasion that she comes across competitors with the same fitness level as her because her tactics are suboptimal. Everyone knows it. I don't mean this maliciously, but her stubbornness makes me think she has some major self-confidence issues.

I understand that the competition at USATF Outdoor Nationals is a lot weaker. No one would question that.

But in July of 2010 in MONACO, when she ran the 5th fastest 800m EVER by an American for her PR of 1:57.34 she came thru the quarter in 56.09 That's essentially the same time as what she ran today, of 56.06

For some reason, she just didn't have it for the last 200m.

Her PR (with a 56.09 quarter) would have won her Gold today.

I do think people are being way too hard on Montano. Her strategy is just fine for a championship 800. But her execution was off today. I bet she and her coach were aiming for a 57-low, 59-mid for the win. But it's hard to gauge the opening pace when championship adrenaline is flowing.

Her coach should have sounded like a broken record for the two days leading up to the race, telling her to dial it back and take it out a bit easier than normal. Taking the opening quarter 1 second too slow is no big deal, taking it 1 second too fast and it's game over. That's what makes it a risky strategy in championship races. Rudisha nailed it last year, but then he's Rudisha.

Monaco is a good counter example, but you can't exactly compare a Diamond league race to a championship where she (and everyone else) has done two sub-2 races in the past three days. Monaco was great, but I bet she would have gone even faster if she had led off in 56-high. And today she might have won with a 57-low.

Why wasn't Ekaterina Poistogova disqualified. The only thing that kept her ahead of Wilson was a vicious elbow with 40 m to go. Ajee may have got the bronze.

I am not new to the sport at all. I've coached two guys in the top 30 of the world and numerous All-Americans in the 800. I don't care what races she has won wire to wire. She isn't reaching her full potential. If she slowed the first 200 down by 1-1.5 seconds she would have had that for the last two. Championship races are about winning not being a hero.

Aye aye aye....what a thread.

Yeah, it looked to me like Poistogova also hindered Martinez on the curve. aT 200 to go, Martinez was moving by her on the outside, then partway through the curve Martinez very quickly drops behind her. Can't tell if this was on purpose or not, but the was she was moving and considering what she had left for the final stretch, you'd think she'd just fly past on the outside as she usually does. Martinez was closing faster over the last 50 (once she got past Poistogova on the inside) than Savinova was. So, Poistogova might have cost Americans Silver and Bronze...sheesh.

Montano's post race comments demonstrate that she STILL doesn't get it despite the agonizingly simple nature of her repeated mistake.

"this is the final exam, and I just didn’t do that great of a job in the last 50 which is what we’ve been practicing, and that was the last piece that I didn’t put together."

Someone needs to get it across to her that you CAN'T have anything for the last 50 if you take it out like you think it's a 600, which she always does. She is simply out of touch with her own race.

800 guru wrote:

If she slowed the first 200 down by 1-1.5 seconds she would have had that for the last two.

She would not have. If you had really coached all-americans you would know you only get full ATP-CP power for the first 10 seconds or so. Watch the race again, and see where Montano grabs her lead - turn 1. First 10 seconds. Use it or lose it.

And maybe you could also research the many times she's gone out 1 second slower, and find an example where she finished in 1:56. That would prove your point nicely.

Why wasn't Poistogova DQ'd for Shoving and the Elbow to the chest on Wilson? Why didn't USATF protest? It would have given more prize money to Wilson

Maybe because she had to run rounds, genius CAL BEAR!

I too wondered what had happened to Martinez around the turn. It looked as if she were ready to strike, and then all of a sudden she drops back. I just watched the race again, and it's hard to tell what took place, but it's possible that Poistogova did hinder Martinez and well as Wilson. And as for NBCs coverage of this. Hammond and Masback mentioned Wilson not once during the race and Martinez one time only (with fifty to go).

The Stache wrote:

Aye aye aye....what a thread.

Yeah, it looked to me like Poistogova also hindered Martinez on the curve. aT 200 to go, Martinez was moving by her on the outside, then partway through the curve Martinez very quickly drops behind her. Can't tell if this was on purpose or not, but the was she was moving and considering what she had left for the final stretch, you'd think she'd just fly past on the outside as she usually does. Martinez was closing faster over the last 50 (once she got past Poistogova on the inside) than Savinova was. So, Poistogova might have cost Americans Silver and Bronze...sheesh.

I love the way she runs. They only question I have is does she need to run as hard as she does in the rounds and semis? I wonder if she could back it down a bit in the rounds and run a stronger final.