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Ecol
Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 6:37PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
With Cento running 3:33 this week, it reminded me of Steve Holman and his challenges breaking through. Obviously, Matt already has a WC Bronze and an Olympic 4th, so quite a superior career to Holman, but look at Holman's progression -

1500 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
2000 3:33.59 Zürich 11 AUG
1999 3:32.73 Zürich 11 AUG
1998 3:33.60 Monaco 08 AUG
1997 3:31.52 Bruxelles 22 AUG
1996 3:34.55 Oslo 05 JUL
1995 3:32.01 Monaco 25 JUL
1994 3:34.94 Stockholm 12 JUL
1993 3:35.29 Rieti 05 SEP
1992 3:34.95 Monaco 11 AUG
1991 3:38.37 Luzern 06 JUL
1990 3:39.60 Nyköping 03 JUL
1989 3:45.41 Providence, RI 23 JUL

800 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
1998 1:46.78 Bratislava 09 JUN
1998 1:46.78 Bratislava 09 JUN
1997 1:48.35 Sheffield 29 JUN
1995 1:44.98 Lappeenranta 16 JUL

Check out Matt's progression

1500 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
2013 3:33.58 Monaco 19 JUL
2012 3:31.96 Lausanne 23 AUG
2011 3:34.46 Monaco 22 JUL
2009 3:36.92 Palo Alto, CA 02 MAY
2008 3:44.98 Eugene, OR 08 JUN

800 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
2013 1:45.86 Portland, OR 08 JUN
2012 1:48.42 London (CP) 14 JUL

This also demonstrates how young Matt is and his future is bright.

http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-states/matthew-centrowitz-228630#progression
Blowing Rock.Master
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:02PM - in reply to Ecol Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Holman was a great time trialer but a terrible racer. Centro is pretty much the opposite.
A Duck
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:09PM - in reply to Blowing Rock.Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Blowing Rock.Master wrote:

Holman was a great time trialer but a terrible racer. Centro is pretty much the opposite.



So true, an amazing talent. He fell into the category of "million dollar legs, two cent head."

He'd psyche out in almost any big race. It was sad to watch.
dkny64
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:14PM - in reply to A Duck Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

A Duck wrote:


Blowing Rock.Master wrote:

Holman was a great time trialer but a terrible racer. Centro is pretty much the opposite.



So true, an amazing talent. He fell into the category of "million dollar legs, two cent head."

He'd psyche out in almost any big race. It was sad to watch.


+1

I have such visceral memories of watching Holman bomb out at US Trials wondering why the heck he didn't simply go to the front and CRUSH competitors who couldn't come close to his PR.
wineturtle
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:15PM - in reply to Ecol Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
far as I know---Matthew is Matt's son.
They introduce themselves that way. Matt has always used Matt and Matthew has always used Matthew.
Blowing Rock.Master
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:22PM - in reply to A Duck Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The strange thing is that I think he's really a smart guy. I think he actually thought too much about what he was doing and suffered from "analysis paralysis".
flash20935
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:24PM - in reply to wineturtle Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Funny thing is that Matt Centrowitz actually coached Holman while the Enclave was active in DC in the mid-90s
Gwol
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:33PM - in reply to wineturtle Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
That's funny. I call him Matt on campus.
Canova>God
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 8:47PM - in reply to Ecol Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think some really smart guys can over think the simple act of racing and really screw themselves over. Look at Alan Webb he seems to be a smart guy but was never able to relax and perform to his abilities in championship races. Smart races and smart people are two very different things.

Fortunately for Centro he is arguable the smartest tactician in the sport. He consistently puts himself in position to beat people who are better than him on paper. If anyone makes a mistake in a championship Centro will capitalize on it. His future is bright and you can count on him being there when his opportunity comes.
dkny64
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 9:04PM - in reply to Canova>God Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Canova>God wrote:

I think some really smart guys can over think the simple act of racing and really screw themselves over. Look at Alan Webb he seems to be a smart guy but was never able to relax and perform to his abilities in championship races. Smart races and smart people are two very different things.

Fortunately for Centro he is arguable the smartest tactician in the sport. He consistently puts himself in position to beat people who are better than him on paper. If anyone makes a mistake in a championship Centro will capitalize on it. His future is bright and you can count on him being there when his opportunity comes.


Agreed but I don't like his chances at this year's WC 'cause I think the Kenyans led by Kiprop are ready to be smart and turn the final into a team time trial where you''re going to need to be in sub 3:30 shape to be a factor.
Dr. Steve Brule
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 9:53PM - in reply to Ecol Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Ecol wrote:

1500 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
2000 3:33.59 Zürich 11 AUG
1999 3:32.73 Zürich 11 AUG
1998 3:33.60 Monaco 08 AUG
1997 3:31.52 Bruxelles 22 AUG
1996 3:34.55 Oslo 05 JUL
1995 3:32.01 Monaco 25 JUL
1994 3:34.94 Stockholm 12 JUL
1993 3:35.29 Rieti 05 SEP
1992 3:34.95 Monaco 11 AUG
1991 3:38.37 Luzern 06 JUL
1990 3:39.60 Nyköping 03 JUL
1989 3:45.41 Providence, RI 23 JUL

1500 Metres
Performance Wind Place Date
2013 3:33.58 Monaco 19 JUL
2012 3:31.96 Lausanne 23 AUG
2011 3:34.46 Monaco 22 JUL
2009 3:36.92 Palo Alto, CA 02 MAY
2008 3:44.98 Eugene, OR 08 JUN



The Monaco Factor sustains!
Saul Goodman
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 9:59PM - in reply to Canova>God Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I agree with this. I've watched CJr race a ton and every time I think (200m into the race) 'Centro has perfect position.... again'.

Someone else in this thread said he isn't a good time trialer which I can't agree or disagree with because I don't believe he's ever been in a true TT race. My opinion is if he were fit in a race like Monaco, we'd see a sub 3:30 out of him because his positioning and fitness would allow for it.

But holy Jeebus, the guy can race.
Brian Wave
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 10:07PM - in reply to Blowing Rock.Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Blowing Rock.Master wrote:

The strange thing is that I think he's really a smart guy. I think he actually thought too much about what he was doing and suffered from "analysis paralysis".


One problem Holman had was an odd one in that he didn't seem to be able to adjust pace during a race. If the race started fast he'd run fast. If it started slow he'd run poorly.
ttc
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 10:40PM - in reply to Brian Wave Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Holman was still Olympian, National Champion & World Top 10.

He got his MBA at prestigious Wharton- where Donald Trump sent his kids & called the best business school in the world.

Now he's a Senior Executive for Vanguard, raking huge money.

Winner in every sense- running, career & otherwise.
ghost of harry groves
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/20/2013 11:14PM - in reply to ttc Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ttc wrote:

Holman was still Olympian, National Champion & World Top 10.

He got his MBA at prestigious Wharton- where Donald Trump sent his kids & called the best business school in the world.

Now he's a Senior Executive for Vanguard, raking huge money.

Winner in every sense- running, career & otherwise.


The Donald Trump seal of approval: walking proof of the old adage a stopped clock is right twice a day
Tom Barnyard
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/21/2013 1:02AM - in reply to Gwol Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Gwol wrote:

That's funny. I call him Matt on campus.



Weird, cause I call them both "Matty" when I see them at the driving range.
Weary
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/21/2013 2:02AM - in reply to ghost of harry groves Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Wharton is one of the top five American business schools with or without Trump's say-so.
runn
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/21/2013 5:46AM - in reply to Blowing Rock.Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Blowing Rock.Master wrote:

Holman was a great time trialer but a terrible racer. Centro is pretty much the opposite.


My first thought. There is no comparison between the two.
90's Wolverine
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/21/2013 6:52AM - in reply to runn Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I knew Paul McMullen back when we were in college and I remember Paul used to always warm up in the opposite direction of Holman. That way, twice a lap, Paul would be able to stare Holman down. After a few laps,Holman couldn't look McMullen in the face. At that point, Paul knew he had them.
John O'Donnell
RE: Matt Centrowitz and Steve Holman 7/21/2013 6:59AM - in reply to dkny64 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's a bit too personal for me to talk about what might have been in an athlete's head, but the Holman record, whatever the cause, speaks for itself. I was one of the few fans in the Atlanta Olympic stadium for the last day of the Trials in 1996, and in the span of an hour, I saw the two most remarkable things I have ever seen in decades as a track and field fan. I saw Johnson's first 200 meter WR, a record he later broke in the Oly final; and I saw Holman, the preeminent American miler at the time, get passed by about half the field in the last 300 meters of the 1,500 final.
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