R.I.P. Mizuno Musha

Have you tried the Sayonara?

I've run in both, and I think the Sayonara is a vast improvement. More cushion, more response, a quick, springy feel to them.

Reading your subject line, I was relieved to find out that the R.I.P. was for a shoe and not someone named Mizuno Musha. I don't know who Mizuno Musha is, but there are a lot of "famous" people with unusual names that I don't know in the running world.

The Sayonara is a good mash-up of the Mizuno Elixir and the Precision but too bulky compared to the Musha.

Sad day, though. The Musha was one of my best friends...

Is the Sayonara supportive at all or neutral? I read a great review about them that sounded really good and stated several times they can work for overpronators. Then on runningwarehouse's website they are listed as neutral. What gives?

The Musha is my favorite but I'm willing to try the Sayonara. It looks interesting and at 7.9 ounces I don't really see how it is 'more shoe' than the Musha..but my main question is, is the Sayonara a supportive flat at all or its neutral?

If it IS supportive, how exactly are the Sayonara and Hitogami different?

I thought it was going to be a Japanese athlete.

Technically, the Sayonara is neutral but it will work for pronators. It has the Wave plate that is much more substantial than the Musha's- it will help for mild pronators. There really is no comparison between the two, though. They are very different shoes. If you want more shoe than the Musha go with the Sayonara. The Hitogami will be pretty similar to the Musha and still totally different than the Sayonara.

The Sayonara is very similar to the Saucony Kinvara.

Hey guys, I'm Seth with Mizuno Running..

Yea, the Musha will not be carried and updated in Jan. like usual as we are streamlining our entire line up.

Similair to the way Sayonara took the best of the Elixir/Precision into one shoe, Wave Hitogami looks to do this with Ronin/Musha.

Totally get that we will have some backlash on this, but no reason for shoes that were so very similar to fight each other for wall space.

Also, I totally agree that the Sayonara is a solid opion for Kinvara runners, basically the exact same weight, if "drop" matters to anyone... it's 10 v. 4, and despite that fact... Sayonara actually puts your foot closer to the ground, for sure more responsive than the Kinvara.

Hit me up with any questions..

And the Sayonara features a new midsole material. (U4iC)

Long term, the Elixir, Musha, Precision and Ronin are going to disappear being replaced by Sayonara, Hitogami and - the Rider!

2014's Rider will also be equipped with U4iC, weighing in 8.8 ounces for the mens version without losing any cushion. (Wave Plate remains the same, forefoot a little less clunky and responsive)

For mild overpronators, the Sayonara is just as fine as the musha was.

Well there must be somebody new at mizuno who thought they would leave their mark. This is a total screwup.

Mizuno will also be getting rid of the Ronin as well as the Musha. These are 2 very different shoes, yet one shoe is expected to replace them. Plus the loss of the elixir.

Nobody new at all, actually a change that has been planned for a while.

Look at the shoe wall, is there REALLY a need for 2 road flats that essentially do the same thing? Not really.

The racing flat story for Mizuno will be

1. Wave Universe

2. Wave Ekiden

3. Wave Hitogami

I'm certain that within that range we have a shoe for every type of runner.

If more stability is needed, than the Sayonara (which is barely 1/2 ounce heavier than Musha) would be a solid match.

As a side note: I've always questioned the point of a "stability flat" anyway.

sethh wrote:

Nobody new at all, actually a change that has been planned for a while.

Look at the shoe wall, is there REALLY a need for 2 road flats that essentially do the same thing? Not really.

The racing flat story for Mizuno will be

1. Wave Universe

2. Wave Ekiden

3. Wave Hitogami

I'm certain that within that range we have a shoe for every type of runner.

If more stability is needed, than the Sayonara (which is barely 1/2 ounce heavier than Musha) would be a solid match.

As a side note: I've always questioned the point of a "stability flat" anyway.

----

Your young.

Stability demand stays constant trainer or flat , issues that require a runner needing stability features just don't magically disappear when they wear a flat.

With good engineering and design , you can add the features and keep the reasons people by a flat.

This is when Letsrun is great -- when reps who know what they're talking about come on to speak to people. Thanks for offering to answer questions.

I've been running in the Ronins for a few years now as an everyday shoe (along with the Universes). I've grown pretty comfortable with that shoe. What will be my best bet for a replacement within Mizuno, and how will it compare? Particularly interested in weight -- definitely wouldn't want to go heavier, wouldn't mind going lighter. Any recommendations?

So if I have been using the Musha for 6 mile tempos and some interval work, will the Sayonara be fine also? I am a moderate pronator.

I will buy the Hitogami in Jan. 2014 but I need a new tempo shoe next week.

Should I stock up on another Musha or go for the Sayonara?

sethh wrote:

Hey guys, I'm Seth with Mizuno Running..

Yea, the Musha will not be carried and updated in Jan. like usual as we are streamlining our entire line up.

Similair to the way Sayonara took the best of the Elixir/Precision into one shoe, Wave Hitogami looks to do this with Ronin/Musha.

Totally get that we will have some backlash on this, but no reason for shoes that were so very similar to fight each other for wall space.

Also, I totally agree that the Sayonara is a solid opion for Kinvara runners, basically the exact same weight, if "drop" matters to anyone... it's 10 v. 4, and despite that fact... Sayonara actually puts your foot closer to the ground, for sure more responsive than the Kinvara.

Hit me up with any questions..

Seth

I love the Elixir and do all my training in it. Nothing crazy only about 40 or 50mi/wk.

You say the Sayonara is an option for Kinvara users. Along with my Elixirs I use the Saucony Mirage. I found the Kinvara was just not supportive enough.

If I am using Elixirs and the Mirage do you think the Saynora would work as an every day trainer? I can see the Saynora taking the place of my Musha's to race half marathons, but what do I go with as a daily trainer.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

PLEASE don't get rid of the Elixers. I LOVE that shoe!

sethh , Will the Musha still be produced in Japan?

sayonaraforme? wrote:

So if I have been using the Musha for 6 mile tempos and some interval work, will the Sayonara be fine also? I am a moderate pronator.

I will buy the Hitogami in Jan. 2014 but I need a new tempo shoe next week.

Should I stock up on another Musha or go for the Sayonara?

I've been using Sayonara as my daily trainer, and still doing speedwork in the Ronins. If you like the feel of Musha, stick with it until Hitogami comes out.

That being said... I'd at least give Sayonara a shot, the new U4iC midsole is much more noticeable at faster speeds I've noticed. Super responsive.

[/quote]

Seth

I love the Elixir and do all my training in it. Nothing crazy only about 40 or 50mi/wk.

You say the Sayonara is an option for Kinvara users. Along with my Elixirs I use the Saucony Mirage. I found the Kinvara was just not supportive enough.

If I am using Elixirs and the Mirage do you think the Saynora would work as an every day trainer? I can see the Saynora taking the place of my Musha's to race half marathons, but what do I go with as a daily trainer.[/quote]

Hey qrkid,

Thanks for the note.

I'm with you on the Elixir being that go-to trainer. Has been mine for years and I was surprised when the product guys told me it was going away at the end of 2013, but when I got the Sayonara sample... I was set at ease.

I'd put Sayonara right next to the Mirage, Elixir, Kinvara on a shoe wall in run specialty. Although it's deemed a neutral shoe, Sayonara actually has tested to be 1%-2% more stable than the Elixir. Basically due to being closer to the ground, a different midfoot platform, and the addition of u4ic midsole compound.

So, in short... Yea, Sayonara would be your daily trainer coming from the Elixir, coming in January the Wave Hitogami will hit streets... will be a solid half marathon racer.

Thanks again for the question!

Capitol Idiot wrote:

sethh , Will the Musha still be produced in Japan?

That's a really good question, let me shoot an e-mail and get the right answer for you.