What percentage of poor people deserve it?

Three Hand Luke wrote:

Kracker wrote:

The usual ad hominem I have come to expect from the dimmer letsrun posters

Yours is now officially entered into the finals of the stupidest posts in the history of this place.

Congratulations!

Feel better now?

Have you been enlightened?

Kracker wrote:

Three Hand Luke wrote:

Yours is now officially entered into the finals of the stupidest posts in the history of this place.

Congratulations!

Feel better now?

Have you been enlightened?

I was aware all along that yours was a monumentally stupid post.

You know what would be really great for fighting poverty? It would be awesome if we had a system where we all paid taxes (maybe with the well-off paying the most) to fund some sort of free public education that would enable everybody to learn and climb the ladder of success. We could even provide transportation to and from these places, maybe on a big yellow bus. And we could even give free breakfast and lunch to the kids who might be hungry. I'll bet if those kids worked hard and showed promise, some really good universities would even let some of them come for free to continue their education.

Nah. That could never happen.

Seriously--I used to teach in an inner-city school. And while the snark above is by no means the norm, it happens. More often than you might think. Lots of us are only a generation or two removed from poverty; my grandmother was the only one of her 12 siblings to finish high school, and didn't grow up with indoor plumbing. Several of my former students are the first in their family to ever go to college, or in some cases, work full-time. There is a lot more to it than just pulling oneself up by the bootstraps, but there is lots of scaffolding in place to help the motivated change their trajectory.

It's more difficult coming from a poor background, but honestly it comes down to the individual. A friend of mine came out of a Baaaad trailer park with crappy parents, he went to college has a great job, he's quiet successful. His siblings are all garbage.

These are kids with the same rules, same up bringing, same genes. The others chose the easy route but now live a hard life, he chose the more difficult path but now has it good. Choices my friends, it's all about choices.

amateur economist wrote:

Here is my estimate:

20% genuinely are reaping what they sow. These are the extremely lazy and the extremely stupid and they have solely themselves to blame.

I haven't read any of the posts but the first one. So someone is at fault for being stupid? Isn't that largely genetic?

whatwhat wrote: It's more difficult coming from a poor background, but honestly it comes down to the individual.

We all know (or are related) to people who overcame the odds and improved their lot. Of course it's possible, and of course it happens. But your very first sentence is the point: "it's more difficult coming from a poor background."

Take two identical twins, and have one brought up by a supportive upper-middle-class family in a good neighborhood, and other in a terrible ghetto, and there are four possible outcomes:

(1) Both kids are successful, "proving" that it comes down the individual.

(2) Both kids are unsuccessful, "proving" that it comes down to the individual.

(3) The kid in the good neighborhood is successful and the other isn't, "proving" that environment is what matters.

(4) The kid in the bad neighborhood is successful and the other isn't, "proving" that it comes down to luck.

In reality, no outcome proves anything -- we're only dealing with probabilities. I think everyone would agree that none of the first three options would be that surprising. And that includes the third option: we all know that two kids who have the same genetic background and make similar choices won't necessary have the same outcomes.

If a kid growing up poor ends up stuck in poverty, you can often trace that back to mistakes and bad decisions he made along the way. The point is that upper-class kids are human too, and sometimes make mistakes and bad decisions -- but they don't necessarily pay as steep a price. They have a support system to help them get through unexpected problems, and keep them on track for success.

How should society address this issue? That's a question of personal philosophy, with no absolute "right" and "wrong." But at the very least we should understand the obvious fact that some kids start on third base while others don't even have a bat to swing with.

seriously?

jfgu wrote:

Nobody deserves to be poor.

My great-grandpa was a Norwegian immigrant turned self-made millionaire.

He always said "Stupid people make stupid babies".

I wouldnt argue against your points at all. If you are lucky enough to have decent supportive parents (not just rich)the point you made about not paying as steep a price is dead on.

I came from a working class neighborhood. Luckily I had good parents that helped me get through tougher times. Friends of mine weren't as lucky, put them on a different track.

As far as "society" addressing the issue? That's a million dollar question. All you can hope is that we dont glorify living the thug life and try to encourage people to always try to be "better". What we're doing now isn't really helping, that's for sure.

Matthew 19:24-"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

-80 Below Zero wrote:

Proverbs 10:4- Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth

Ric wrote:

Matthew 19:24-"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

-80 Below Zero wrote:

Proverbs 10:4- Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth

Matthew's Addendums 14:31 - "Of course I should have added, it is also easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is not rich to enter the kingdom of God."

I think only 5% of rich people 'deserve' to be rich. The rest inherited it, got lucky, or screwed others.

First of all can we stop quoting 5 posts into one new post. It reads really badly.

Secondly, a lot of people don't know what poverty is or have some idea in their head of what it's like without having lived it.

There are high schools where some or most drop out before getting any qualifications. Places where people are laughed at if they mention college you would get your head kicked in. I'm not saying people deserve or don't deserve anything but look at some situations some 5 year olds are living in and it would shock you. When that is all they see from when they are 0 up until 16 and especially in certain tower blocks it's a different kind of life. Of course there are always exceptions and those who do well and I applaud those. Just the odds are stacked against the others. Look at the statistics of those who are born into different situations.

PS I don't think there's anything wrong with being a mechanic, it's a good job.

Yo Momma wrote:

I think only 5% of rich people 'deserve' to be rich. The rest inherited it, got lucky, or screwed others.

How did you arrive at this figure? Do you have some source that you might cite? Some deductive reasoning that one might follow? Some facts to back that up?

Or is this just a pull one out of your a$$ type figure?

Can you use deductive reasoning to figure out which it might be? :)

Yo Momma wrote:

Can you use deductive reasoning to figure out which it might be? :)

So your thought processes are dominated by baseless ideas that you pull out of your a$$.

Got it.

100% of poor people deserve to be poor. Also, like 95% of rich people deserve to be poor. Actually, everyone deserves to be poor. F*ck people

What a lot of people don't get is that people raised in poverty are often reluctant or unwilling to leave that situation not necessarily because they are all lazy/dumb but because they are perfectly complacent and comfortable in their socioeconomic situation, as it is the environment they grew up in and all they have ever known.

From the perspective of an upper-middle class white kid the prospects of living in a trailer park or the projects may seem horrible but to many people its just their life. Sure, they would "like" to be rich but they have no idea how to realistically attain wealth and knowing this they just accept it without making an effort to leave their situation as it would isolate them from their upbringing.

You would have to quantify exactly what you mean by bad circumstances. For example you last person made choices (have kids) that resulted in her circumstance. That isn't bad luck. That is a bad choice. Being born stupid is getting shafted. But very few people are that stupid. Most chose not to maximize what they were born with. The difference between rich and middle class kids is how many bad choices you can get away with and still turn out. Black inner city kid with a drug arrest and a GED is unemployable. White kid from a rich family that could afford to send him to college with a drug arrest is someone with a youthful indiscretion.