sub 26 XC 8k

5k/10k PRs? sure hope you've broken 16:00 already for sub 26 will be tough

sub 26 is also my goal for around october. i ran 15:40s this year in track and have run 75 in a half, so my endurance doesnt drop off much.

basically, you should build to 60-70 mpw like you said, with as many hill runs as you can for now. dont do any hard workouts yet, just stick to progression runs, hilly runs, and longer tempos (40-60 minutes, anywhere from 5:40s to 6:10s). do strides when you feel like it to keep in touch with speed. thats about it. the mileage change alone should help a lot if you are consistent. maybe run some 10ks this summer to get used to an over-d race. try to break 16 in a road race if you havent yet, or try to run low 33s in a 10k.

Thanks for the response. My XC pr is 16:16 but I've run 1:55 and 4:19.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

Hi everyone, I was wondering if the LetsRun world could help get me to a sub 26 minute XC 8k for this fall for about early October. Before anyone suggests that I ask a coach, unfortunately I do not have a coach and am training myself with input from various other sources. I believe this goal is attainable, so I am not really looking for people to tell me whether I can do this or not.

I have had success at the mid-distances of 800m and 1600m, but not a lot of success above that. I have just started running after a 2 week break and am currently building up base mileage. I have previously run 55mpw and look to increase that to about 60mpw while significantly increasing the quality of the mileage. Thanks in advance for the responses!

Quantity has a quality all its own. Spend the summer running some mileage.

XC is about getting strong as f*ck.

I have the same goal, bump

If you've done 1:55 and sub 4:20 but you haven't broken 16:00 or 26:00 yet, all you should worry about for the summer is miles. Lots of them. 60 should be a short week. You should be averaging closer to 70 and maybe approach 80. It sounds like a lot, but given 10 weeks to work with, how hard would this be?

55

60

65

70

65

70

75

70

75

80

You need to get your long run in the neighborhood of 15 miles.

You need to start running doubles 1-3 times per week.

You also need to stay away from the track or almost anything with the word "repeat" in it.

Thanks for the response, a lot of what you said makes perfect sense. What are your thoughts on tempo runs? And why are you so against intervals, I'm not saying I was going to go run a bunch of them this summer but your comment made me curious. Thanks for the response again.

Try Hard Run Fast wrote:

Thanks for the response, a lot of what you said makes perfect sense. What are your thoughts on tempo runs? And why are you so against intervals, I'm not saying I was going to go run a bunch of them this summer but your comment made me curious. Thanks for the response again.

The big races are in November, not August.

You want to show up with a really good base, prepared to start doing more specific XC training. Tempo runs are okay during the summer, as long as they are controlled. The problem with interval workouts is that it's just too tempting to run fast. Ideally, you should do enough mileage that you don't feel like doing "workouts".

If you're serious, you should search for 'summer of malmo' and read what malmo has to say carefully; skip all the posts in which others reinterpret it.

similar situation but about 1 level lower of a runner (1:58,4:27,17:10) and I always seemed to get injured in the summer by adding milage to quickly and workouts to intensely. In the middle of Summer of Malmo and I'm loving it. I have it a little more structured then malmo wants but it seems to be working for me very well. good luck on your goal certainly check out Malmo

What those two guys ^ said. I never actually did the Summer of Malmo, but looking back on it, most of my summers in college were similar (in theme, anyway):

Run more than last year.

Run doubles.

Run some hills.

Do some tempo runs.

Do some long runs.

Do some strides.

I only deviate with Malmo with the 2x a week on the track thing. The first workout is a tempo run anyway. You couldn't pay me to do a tempo run on the track. The second workout is really just a classic fartlek. He even points out himself that repeat 1200s are not too far off of doing 5:00 on / 5:00 off on the roads. And I'm sorry, I don't get doing 20x200 in July. But then again, Malmo was world class, and I wasn't so maybe he's onto something there.

I mean, it's not rocket science. You show up in late August or the first week of September with a really good base. There's no point in showing up at your peak and there's no point showing up injured.

If you are the type who can add a ton of miles without getting hurt - go for it. If you've had trouble in the past with this, well, be careful with that.

If it hurts, ice it. If it continues to hurt, take some time off and/or cross-train.

Your coach will then take your base and mold it. You'll train through all the meaningless races in September. You'll rest a bit for some of the bigger races in October.

You'll taper for the big races in November.

And yeah, if you step foot on a track in the summer, you're doing it wrong.

Thanks for the responses. However, I am not really trying to peak for November, I am just trying to walk-on and make the team period. I want to be in the best shape possible at the time disregarding the rest of the season. That time will be within the first two weeks of October, so I don't have nearly as much time to prepare or hold off on track workouts as runners in a normal situation.

Exactly as everyone has saying- just run. I noticed my biggest changes when I just started getting some mileage in (weeks together of 75-85). Did some strides in there, ran hard in the last mile of runs when I felt like it, etc. Just put the work in.

weekly 4M tempos, building gradually over months to 5:12 pace, which is 26:00 pace for 8k. I was able to get to 20:50 for that tempo last november and feel relatively easy doing it, so with your speed this should not be a problem. i was running much higher mileage. I'd add progressions of 10-12 miles once a week and a track workout. In the summer, the progressions can end maybe a little under 6 but go gradually down from 7 minute pace, while you can skip the track speed, but do the tempos, starting at maybe 22:00. Make your warmup reasonably fast and do the workout with a group if you can.

Update on my training: So far I have run just over 5 weeks after taking a 2 week break after track season. My mileage progression has gone something like this

36 (day off)

42 (day off)

58

47 (day off)

55

I'm planning on getting up to 60mpw each week and run just under 60mpw on weeks with a day off.

I ran a local 5k road race at the end of the fourth week for my first workout/hard run of my xc training and ended up running 16:17 (1 second off my pr). This was off of just easy running for 4 weeks.

This past weekend I did my first 4 mile tempo in 22:08 on a track in trainers (I was traveling and didn't have any good trails to use). This was a very strong effort but I was very smooth (good pacing) and closed the last lap in 78ish.

How does my training/progress look so far with the goal of sub 26 in mid October?

reed wrote:

5k/10k PRs? sure hope you've broken 16:00 already for sub 26 will be tough

sub 26 is also my goal for around october. i ran 15:40s this year in track and have run 75 in a half, so my endurance doesnt drop off much.

basically, you should build to 60-70 mpw like you said, with as many hill runs as you can for now. dont do any hard workouts yet, just stick to progression runs, hilly runs, and longer tempos (40-60 minutes, anywhere from 5:40s to 6:10s). do strides when you feel like it to keep in touch with speed. thats about it. the mileage change alone should help a lot if you are consistent. maybe run some 10ks this summer to get used to an over-d race. try to break 16 in a road race if you havent yet, or try to run low 33s in a 10k.

75 for a half shows a serious drop off in endurance for a 15:40 guy. I doubt you will break 26 in cross. In the past when I ran sub 26 I could run 71 for half and was only running 15:45.

Bump

Yo Broh wrote:

75 for a half shows a serious drop off in endurance for a 15:40 guy. I doubt you will break 26 in cross. In the past when I ran sub 26 I could run 71 for half and was only running 15:45.

it may be worth noting that i ran 75 very conservatively coming off a small injury a week prior to the race. was probably in shape to run 5:40 pace, which is 1:14:15ish.

i got this line of fit from letsrun some time back, here's the data for just my area

4:31.9 9:48.1 15:47.7 26:14 33:12 51:10 1:13:55 2:37:34

i ran 15:46.9 and felt like i could run 33 mid for 10k as well, so 74 low isn't a bad decrease in endurance. never ran sub 10 or sub 4:40s though (only raced each once early in season, ran 9:36 3k and 4:24 1500m)

heres the link for the chart

and if you ran a 71 half, you shouldve been closer to 15:15 and 25:30.

i think i have a good shot at sub-26. it's 5:12/1600m pace and i'll have a solid 9 months of 65-70 mpw when the most i've ever averaged other than before a marathon was 50s.

i was also doing mile repeats around 5:15/mi which should be close to 8k pace. i'll start doing mile repeats again starting in 2 weeks, will just shoot for 4-5x1600 in 5:20

Yeah, no kidding. I recently ran a 75 half at altitude, and that was coming off of a bunch of low/mid 17s and one sub 17 on a fast course. If you run 75 off 15:40, your strength is crap.

there's somethign wrong with you if you could only run ~17 for 5k and a 75 half. maybe the half was short.

read my post above.

Bump