Let's Run's SUB-4 Article (clarity please?)

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read it. We don't care about the 5th American boy to break 4, we care about the 6th HSer to break 4. They tried to discredit LV or make it like he wasn't part of the real story -- then listed ED C and Arroyo (Puerto Rican) as potentials.

It was just bad journalism. Furthermore, Montoya is hispanic as well. Not sure if he was born in the US.

you want to talk about HS boys running 4:00 miles? you understand that kids in kenya go to school, right? 6th HSer to go under 4? how about 306th? and that's not to discredit those from the US, as we have a different society here.

domestic pro wrote:

you want to talk about HS boys running 4:00 miles? you understand that kids in kenya go to school, right? 6th HSer to go under 4? how about 306th? and that's not to discredit those from the US, as we have a different society here.

I'm pretty sure they mean american high schoolers, not high schoolers in other countries

workout double wrote:

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read it. We don't care about the 5th American boy to break 4, we care about the 6th HSer to break 4. They tried to discredit LV or make it like he wasn't part of the real story -- then listed ED C and Arroyo (Puerto Rican) as potentials.

It was just bad journalism. Furthermore, Montoya is hispanic as well. Not sure if he was born in the US.

How is it bad journalism?

We were very specific and talked about US citizens. We said Verzbicas did it but wasn't a citizen. Cheserek isn't a citizen either. Puerto Ricans are US citizens.

We can't win. We specifically did this because we think if Cheserek did it, many people would view him as Kenyan as it's no different than when a Kenyan in the NCAA wins. They go to school over here and win but people don't get all excited about it until they become US citizens like Lagat.

So we very specifically used US citizenship as our criteria to avoid being the potential racism charge pre-emptively. It's the exact opposite of racism. Those that would distinguish between Verzbicas and Cheserek are the racists, not us.

If you have a problem with it, then we assume you celebrate the Kenyan wins in the NCAA just as much as Americans?

LetsRun.com wrote:

If you have a problem with it, then we assume you celebrate the Kenyan wins in the NCAA just as much as Americans?

I don't know about you, but I'm a pretty big fan of Lawi Lalang. And I loved seeing Rupp and Chelanga battling. The nationality really doesn't matter. A runner is a runner.

I think you should have included both Cheserek and Verzbikas. They both went through the US high school system so it doesn't really make sense to exclude them. If they went to high school in some other country, then I'd understand leaving them out.

pretty sure lucas was a us citizen when he broke 4

Verzbicas was not a US citizen when he broke 4 and still wasn't in the summer of 2012 which would have prevented him from representing the US in the Olympic triathlon had he otherwise qualified.

If the author wants to write an article about US citizens who have broken 4 in high school, that's his choice. However, it sounds inconsistent to state that Lukas was not eligible for this group due to his citizenship while neglecting to point out that Edward Cheserek, who is included in the list of competitors, is also ineligible. That is what drew the charge of "bad journalism", not the poster's opinion.

As for opinions, why not just write the article about high schoolers who have broken 4? American records are for Americans, high school records are for high schoolers. It's as simple as that. Some may not like it and that's what opinion pieces and message boards are for. Why convolute an otherwise smooth and informative article about a race?

I appreciate all the good information included in the write up and am looking forward to a great race on Saturday.

Heartland runner wrote:

If the author wants to write an article about US citizens who have broken 4 in high school, that's his choice. However, it sounds inconsistent to state that Lukas was not eligible for this group due to his citizenship while neglecting to point out that Edward Cheserek, who is included in the list of competitors, is also ineligible. That is what drew the charge of "bad journalism", not the poster's opinion.

As for opinions, why not just write the article about high schoolers who have broken 4? American records are for Americans, high school records are for high schoolers. It's as simple as that. Some may not like it and that's what opinion pieces and message boards are for. Why convolute an otherwise smooth and informative article about a race?

Why? Because you're talking about an article written by the brojos, aka, not real journalism, aka as sensationalist as can be at the expense of more relevant info.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Those that would distinguish between Verzbicas and Cheserek are the racists, not us.

Lukas V. was normal high school age for a senior, even studied hard in order to skip a year to ensure that. Cheserek is 20 years 5 moths, college sophmore age, and that's what he admits to, since he's East African unfortunately good chance he's even older than that, which would explain why he hasn't really improved anymore running against children. Lukas also arrived here at age nine, which is what, probably least half a decade or more on Cheserek (not going to bother looking it up).

jdklfkodkf wrote:

Lukas V. was normal high school age for a senior, even studied hard in order to skip a year to ensure that. Cheserek is 20 years 5 moths, college sophmore age, and that's what he admits to, since he's East African unfortunately good chance he's even older than that, which would explain why he hasn't really improved anymore running against children. Lukas also arrived here at age nine, which is what, probably least half a decade or more on Cheserek (not going to bother looking it up).

While this information should be considered in terms of comparing their running ability, it isn't really relevant to this argument. LRC said that they're either US citizens, or they aren't. To distinguish between the two could be considered racism. Their age, or years spent in the country, or academic effort doesn't apply to an argument about their citizenship status.

James Harden wrote:

While this information should be considered in terms of comparing their running ability, it isn't really relevant to this argument. LRC said that they're either US citizens, or they aren't. To distinguish between the two could be considered racism. Their age, or years spent in the country, or academic effort doesn't apply to an argument about their citizenship status.

Look likes racism to me when Lukas V is ignored as a sub 4 but then they don't raise the citizenship issue when examining Cheserek. (Now they've gone back and edited the article, with Lukas as an * and pointing out Cheserek as a Kenyan wants to join Lukas as an *, but the original article was racist by their own standards).

Heartland runner wrote:

As for opinions, why not just write the article about high schoolers who have broken 4?

Your kidding right? The list in Kenay would be so long I'd run out of ink.

jdklfkodkf wrote:

Look likes racism to me when Lukas V is ignored as a sub 4 but then they don't raise the citizenship issue when examining Cheserek. (Now they've gone back and edited the article, with Lukas as an * and pointing out Cheserek as a Kenyan wants to join Lukas as an *, but the original article was racist by their own standards).

The original article had an * by it. We always included Verzbicas.

But are you saying we are racist against whites?

workout double wrote:

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read it.

Same here.

rojo wrote:

The original article had an * by it. We always included Verzbicas.

But are you saying we are racist against whites?

What? I saw that looked at that article several times before today and I thought it odd that you didn't include Lukas V. at all and no explanation was given. Only now after reading this thread and checking the article again did I find Lukas with * and detail on Cheserek as Kenyan.

As far as being racist against whites, it is always possible, the USA is full of the self-hating white, self-hating Jews, self-hating Americans.

this whole thread is useless. everybody here is pretty much in agreement but fighting over non-issues.

we all know that verzbikas wasn't a citizen, but hey, at least he's white like us. he's been here since he was 9 and he didn't grow up at altitude or have any other advantages, so we treat him 99% like we do any americans.

as for whoever claimed that arroyo is puerto rican...yeah. so? puerto ricans are american. go be dumb somewhere else.

besides...saarel's giing to win anyway and nobody's going to care about whatever kenyan he beat