Marathon on 35 miles/week??

I've had a similar history as you describe, although my exhaustion always comes during the summers here in Florida.

A couple side notes about the overtraining: could be a dehydration thing, not enough sleep and not enough modulation in your training (e.g. easy days easy, hard days hard, recovery weeks..._). Did you check for anemia?

You can certainly finish a marathon on 35-40 miles/week... you'll likely just have a big positive split (either, from just not having locked in a realistic MP in training and/or just not being in shape for 26.2 miles).

For the one marathon I've done, I had ~1 month with ~60 miles per week followed by ~2 months ~35 miles/week. I did a 2:53 after going out in 1:18 for the half... I was reduced to a walk and jog.

Dude, I'm the same way. I'm 6'0'', 180 (muscular) and I get super fatigued if I do more than 3-4 weeks of 50+ miles. I ran 2:52 on 35 mile weeks and some 50 mile weeks closer to race day. I did most of my light days at 6:30- 6:40 pace and never really did any easy days (7:10 or slower). I combined that with either two hard tempo runs and a long run or a tempo run, track workout, and long run every week, and it worked. I also ran two 20 milers at 7:20 pace in the month before the marathon. Over time I realized that my body responds way better to quality and rest as opposed to quantity. Maybe that's because I'm a bigger runner though. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. I did check for anemia. In fact, the doctors ran endless labs and other exams... everything came back normal.

I think you're onto something with the "not enough modulation" I was running 100% of my runs slow and easy. I was just focusing on volume and upping my mileage. (I've learned better since then).

I'm now doing 1 or 2 quality workouts/week, and alternating hard/easy days. I'm getting close to PR shape for shorter distances and have been nailing my 5k and 10k races.

But as you mentioned, this could change over longer distances. My longest run since adjusting my training has been 8 miles. So while I know that I could kill a 10k right now, that could be a very different story at 13.1 or 26.2. I'm concerned that with the lower mileage training I won't have the aerobic capacity to handle the longer distances.

On my low mileage plan I would incorporate a long run of usually 10-13 miles once a week at about 6:40 pace. Sometimes I would push and dip to like 6:20-6:30, but only when I felt good. I never forced it. After the marathon, I noticed that if I skipped the long run and instead ran two 8 milers over the course of the week to replace it, my longer races would suffer (10K and 1/2 marathon).

It's possible you are doing it right... high mileage as your base and now lower mileage at a faster pace before your marathon.

Next time around do the same thing except don't run a marathon after your base period and save it.

In the end your training period can be 12 months long.

You can cross train in the marathon prep period when doing 35 miles a week of running and you should not loose any aerobic foundation.

Also, strength training is the keystone to low mileage as this will combat you against injury the same way steady and consistently great mileage will. (ie. strengthen tendons, ligaments, muscles in the fashion they work together)

The strength training should start out simple and progress to explosive and dynamic plyometrics as race day approaches.

Whatno,

What kind of a 5k or 10k did you run near your 2:52 marathon?

I ran 38:16 for 10K 7 months before, 17:36 for 5K 5 months before, and 1:21:15 for the half a month before. The 10K was probably a month or two before I got pretty serious about training though.

I ran 2:48 at the age of 39 on the following:

Su 2hrs

Tu 1hr @ 90% of MP

Th 8x1k @ 10k

Sa 12-16x200 w/200 jog

This was after gaining a lot of weight, and finally getting down to where I wanted to be. So I was not coming from a solid background. I'd run 2:59 6 months earlier.

Each run is a little more "quality" so don't race them

i'm about to run a marathon off a peak week of 38 miles and i kind of wish i had been less of a pu$$Y and ran more. i will not be able to run anywhere near my estimated potential based on my half marathon PR. imo it's probably just not worth it to try to 'race' a marathon on less than 55-60 miles a week MINIMUM.

Ran a marathon in April off of similar circumstances. Longest run was 14. Conversion charts from recent half marathons showed I was capable of sub 3hrs for a full. However, I new I couldn't come close to that. Ended up running 3hrs 8min. Went out in 1hr 35min. Here was my race strategy: 1) First half of race was at about 1 minute slower per mile than what I thought I could do for just a half. 2) Caught the 3:10 pace group at mile 8 and ran with until mile 20. 3) Ended up just being me and the pacer after mile 21 and just ran off feel from that point. Didn't hurt until the last 2 miles, and only slowed down slightly.

So go for it. Just pace yourself correctly early.

That's pretty low end. Using a Monopoly analogy 35-40 mpw is Baltic Avenue with 3 houses. Have you considered either an up-down approach or drop down weeks to cover that fatigue. Go 50-55, then 35-40, 50-55. Or something 35, 45, 55, repeat. That will at least get you to Oriental Avenue with 4 houses.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

I know this plan is less than ideal. But these burnout/overtraining periods have happened 4-5 times over the last few years. It's been incredibly frustration to be forced to take time off every time I reach a certain level in my training.

As a result I'm taking a VERY conservative approach. By sticking with low mileage and quality workouts I've been able to run for 5 months without interruption. That's the first time I've been able to do that since the fatigue issues started back in 2008. I don't want to jeopardize that, so I'm not gonna even come close to what might be "too much". If that means not running the marathon in October- so be it. But from the sound of things, I can still run the marathon on a peak of 35 miles, it just won't be the best possible race.

A few suggestions. First, rather than think hard/easy, think hard/easy/easy or even that followed by hard/easy/easy/easy. Second, don't think in terms of a seven day cycle, but a ten or twelve day cycle. Third, make sure you are hydrating, hydrating, hydrating. Fourth, make sure you have some protein following every session, even easy ones. Fifth, make the easy days especially easy--e.g., three miles slow, along with some core work--and make the hard days just that, hard--e.g., 2x800, 4x1200, 1x1600. Finally, connected with the last point, try to have some variation in every hard work--e.g., different paces, even during the same rep.

Thanks Monte. I forgot to mention that I made some changes to my nutrition that seem to be helping. And like you mentioned, I make certain to refuel properly after every run. I've been doing hard/easy and often hard/easy/easy. But throwing a 3rd consecutive easy day in there would be a good idea. I also like your idea of thinking in terms of 10-12 day cycle versus 7 days. Here's an example of what a typical "moderate-hard" week would look like for me.

M- 6 miles with 3-4 miles at LT effort.

Tu-3 mile recovery run

W- off

Th- 5 mile speed day (some type of interval or fartlek session)

F- 3 mile recovery run

Sa- 8 miles at general aerobic effort

Su- off

Total- 25 miles

Rambler82 wrote:

Greetings. I've had some issues with overtraining in the past few years whenever I got to ~45-50 mpw, I could hold it for a few weeks, but then I began to feel exhausted. The exhaustion became so bad that it got to a point where I was unable to run. I was completely fatigued and burnt out. It was 8 months before I could run again.

A sports medicine doctor suggested that this could be the result of overtraining. The doctor worked with me on adjusting my training program. I'm now running ~25 miles/week and have been feeling AMAZING. However, my goal is still the marathon.

So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on running a marathon on 35-40 miles/week.

+1/10 it was the overtraining at 50mpw. Come on man this is letsrun.

Runner 454 wrote:

+1/10 it was the overtraining at 50mpw. Come on man this is letsrun.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

Rambler82 wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

In-joke.

Why do you want to run a marathon anyway?

Randy Oldman wrote:

Rambler82 wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

In-joke.

Why do you want to run a marathon anyway?

It's gotta be a track marathon... that's all I can think of.

Or better yet, it's one of multiple track marathons within a 24 HR world record attempt.

I'm not entirely sure why. But it's always been a distance that has intrigued me. Perhaps the challenge of the distance is what draws me to it. Perhaps the fact that I've had trouble with it makes it even more appealing.

Since I started running it has been a dream to qualify for Boston.