Summer of Malmo questions

I hesitate to interpret Malmo's message, but here are my opinions (in case he doesn't respond):

-His laying out of the SoM does not suggest anything other than including the faster stuff all the way through. I would think that if your initial mileage is low, the *volume* you'd run in the faster sessions would also be low, and you could ramp that volume up gradually as your total weekly mileage increased.

-I'm not sure what you mean by "fartlek"--I've noticed that people seem to have different definitions of it nowadays--but if you mean mimicking one of Malmo's track sessions, just doing it *off* the track, I couldn't see a problem there.

-I can't address the tempo questions confidently and won't try. Someone else shall weigh in, I trust.

Tempo ain't a pace, it's a feel.

Stop thinking about trying to get in x shape this fall, and just worry about being fitter than you have ever been. If you are pushing your threshold a couple times a week for the entire summer, I can guarantee you'll get better.

If your tempo pace is 6:50, he would say you need to get faster before doing 1200s and 1600s. Focus on those doubles and getting FASTER.

FAST Intervals of 150m-400m should be your focus before tempo pace workouts.

My impression is you shouldn't get hung up on times/details, but rather run by feel. the point is to get in the best shape as possible with minimal physical and mental effort. Keep things fun and low stress, get practice running fast and relaxed, and run often:

"Emphasis on RELAXED and emphasis on COMMITMENT"...

"Q: What should my heart rate be?

A: I don't have a clue. I'm trying to get you to "feel" Kung Fu, not "think" it."

"You determine what you want to do; these are just recommendations."...

"Q: Go over that again?

A: (1) twice-a-day, as many days as you can - four, five or six days a week (2) increase your mileage, look, you guys are made of the same muscle and bone as me, you can do it. Find your own sweet spot (3) meet with a group twice a week (4) one tempo run of just four to six miles and (5) one workout of 1200m to 2000m repeats OR 16 to 24 by 150m to 300m (5) don't try to impress anyone, run within yourself (6) relax, the real training doesn't begin until September.

I have a real problem with the "tempo is a feel" mindset. I've said this before on these boards, but doing tempo runs without a specific pace range in mind is just bad training. Say you're a 15:30 5k runner. Your tempo pace should be somewhere in the 5:15-5:45 range. That's a pretty wide range, and depending on the time of year and the how you're feeling that day, the pace could vary.

But say you're doing it "by feel" and you wind up running at like 6:15 pace. You really haven't achieved the goal of the workout!

I agree that building up mileage for the summer is not the time to obsess over splits, but there's nothing wrong with having a range of paces in mind when doing workouts.

Then you're doing it wrong. You're saying the same thing as Malmo. Depending on the day and how you feel, your tempo pace might range from 5:15/mi to 5:45/mi. The point is, let go of the "I must hit 5:30/mi and only 5:30/mi for this tempo workout" mindset and instead feel it. On the days where you're 10 feet tall and bulletproof, go 5:15/mi. On the days when you're 10lbs of cr*p in a 5-lb bag, go 5:45/mi or 6:00/mi or whatever. Feel kung fu.

SlipperyPete1340 wrote:

I have a real problem with the "tempo is a feel" mindset. I've said this before on these boards, but doing tempo runs without a specific pace range in mind is just bad training. Say you're a 15:30 5k runner. Your tempo pace should be somewhere in the 5:15-5:45 range. That's a pretty wide range, and depending on the time of year and the how you're feeling that day, the pace could vary.

But say you're doing it "by feel" and you wind up running at like 6:15 pace. You really haven't achieved the goal of the workout!

I agree that building up mileage for the summer is not the time to obsess over splits, but there's nothing wrong with having a range of paces in mind when doing workouts.

I'd would contend however, that if you are 15:30 guy and end up running a tempo at 6:15...it just wasn't your day anyway, as that's not all that far from being in the category of easy running for someone of that ability.

So what is the goal of tempo runs? To increase lactate threshold and to get some comfortably hard running in without straining the body too much. So if you have a general idea as to what you want to run, say it's 5:15-5:45 pace, and you realize that you're running 6:15 pace and that feels hard, then you should probably just stop the workout. As you say, 6:15 for a 15:30 guy isn't too far off from easy pace. In this scenario, you'd be better off cutting the workout short, just jogging some easy miles, and then trying again another day at your true tempo pace.

The problem with running by "feel" is that you don't know what the hell you've done. So maybe you are feeling great, but you turn around at the end and realize you were at 6:30 pace the whole time. Or, on the opposite end, what if you felt great but ran way too fast? Now you've practically raced a tempo run, and did not accomplish the goal of the workout.

The point of "feel" is to learn to pick a pace and then be able to run that pace. This is useful for racing, obviously, but it is even more useful in training. If you are training so hard or much that you can't predict your pace, you are training too hard to be able to absorb the training.

Maybe someone who has been training for years will be able to do this. Do you really think high school runners who have only been training for 1-3 years are going to be able to feel out a tempo run though? If they do this, they will most likely go way too fast and end up ruining the workout.

Quit over thinking. Get out and run everyday, push the race on a easy every once in a while when you feel good, do a unstructured fartlek each week, and a long run. That is all you need. Most kids who are over thinking training for the summer end up hurt or peak too early come XC season.

Of course, HS runners are not going to be good at it. That is why they need to practice, starting right away.

The point is, in the first 1 to 3 years of training, almost anything you do is going to help. So the only way a tempo run can be ruined for a HS runner is if they don't know how fast they went or if they don't know they went too fast.

Then they can learn from the failure about what a tempo should not feel like and be better at it later when it will matter more.

SlipperyPete1340 wrote:

Maybe someone who has been training for years will be able to do this. Do you really think high school runners who have only been training for 1-3 years are going to be able to feel out a tempo run though? If they do this, they will most likely go way too fast and end up ruining the workout.

If they can't already do it, they need to practice. Otherwise, they still won't know how to do it when they have "been training for years." And not every summer tempo needs to be as fast as possible. Malmo talks about breaking into what many would call a tempo in an easy run a few times a week - it was all by feel, so I'm sure it wasn't the same effort (and certainly not the same pace) every time out.

A real coach wrote:

Quit over thinking. Get out and run everyday, push the race on a easy every once in a while when you feel good, do a unstructured fartlek each week, and a long run. That is all you need. Most kids who are over thinking training for the summer end up hurt or peak too early come XC season.

Just so you know, this isn't exactly SoM. I don't know whether you're intentionally disagreeing or not but you don't have short or long intervals and I don't think Malmo is a huge fan of the long run for high schoolers.

For me, the goal of tempo runs is to build stamina -- the ability to maintain fast paces. Maybe underneath, something is happening with lactate thresholds, but that's never my goal.You are afraid the 15:30 guy will "feel" like running 6:15 tempo pace. This is an unrealistic scenario. When you know what tempo should feel like, then the right pace will come. If the 15:30 guy "feels" like a 6:15 tempo pace, that would be the worst time to be a slave to some pre-defined stamina zone -- and hitting those paces will not achieve the goal of the workout.Tempo is a synonym for rhythm. The right pace is the one that gives a good rhythm.You also mention the inexperienced HS runner who would be tempted to race tempos. Of course, when you don't know what tempo feels like, you need some objective measure (or coach) telling you to slow down. Here a HRM seems to be better than a stopwatch for regulating the appropriate effort (just my opinion). But this uncertainty shouldn't last for more than 1 season under a good coach.

+1

SlipperyPete1340 wrote:

The problem with running by "feel" is that you don't know what the hell you've done. So maybe you are feeling great, but you turn around at the end and realize you were at 6:30 pace the whole time. Or, on the opposite end, what if you felt great but ran way too fast? Now you've practically raced a tempo run, and did not accomplish the goal of the workout.

I think that John Kellog would probably say that developing your feel is just as important as developing your legs and heart. In the long run it will help you with your pacing and your ability to manage recovery. It works pretty well for the Kenyans.

it's about effort level - not pace. Put the damn stopwatch away & just run a controlled/hard effort, making sure to leave a little in the tank at the end. Some days it might be 5:15, others 6:15. The idea that the 6:15 days are a failure is ridiculous.

Train, don't strain..

All this tempo talk annoys me. What pace? No pace? Who cares, a tempo is just running the hardest pace you can while staying even. Your body will sort out what that is on it's own.