MassHole Runner
Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 3:14PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
https://sites.google.com/site/nbbtwilightseries/past-results/2013-twilight-meet-1-results

Abbey D ran a 2:08 in the 800 as well.
Bidge
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 5:18PM - in reply to MassHole Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Is that a world leader by Kim? Good run by both of them.
Bidge
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 5:20PM - in reply to MassHole Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Also, I think that is a 3k PR for Molly. Crazy to think that she could run 14:44 for the 5k, yet can just BARELY squeak under 9 for the 3k.
deytookourjerbs
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 5:27PM - in reply to Bidge Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
she obviously can or could have run faster than 8:57, considering that 14:44 if evenly paced would give you splits of 2:57, 5:54, 8:51, 11:48, 14:45.
long sox
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 5:28PM - in reply to Bidge Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm not sure if a time ran in a mixed race can count as world leader?

I know it wouldn't be accepted as a record, but looking at the Moscow 2013 qualifying standards, in some circumstances a time set in a mixed race counts as a qualifying time.
engineer8
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 5:39PM - in reply to long sox Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The IAAF just changed the rules this year so that 5ks and 10ks on the track at permitted meets(in the US you need to be USATF certified, which this meet is) can be co-ed and still used as qualifiers for Worlds. So at least in Kim's case, I'm guessing since the performance can be used as a qualifier it should be recognized as the world leader. Great run for her!

I wonder if any women will try to take advantage of the co-ed 10k at this the 2nd NBB Twilight meet this weekend.
Yomoma
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 6:57PM - in reply to MassHole Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Where are the videos posted?
Dunston
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 8:37PM - in reply to Yomoma Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't believe the IAAF changed anything. They may allow it but it's bogus. Say for example, two males were directly in front of her taking the wind out of the picture completely. What's that worth? Ten sec's maybe?

Kim's good enough to get the a-standard--perhaps easily-- but really, why wouldn't a lot more women be doing it this way?
a standard shmay standard
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/13/2013 11:55PM - in reply to Dunston Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Suppose two males were in front of another male, by your logic, shouldn't his performance be discredited?

But you're ok with two females in front of another female, I assume.

I'll grant you, however, that a male pacing a female in a set up race can be definite help for the female in getting a qualifying mark.

I saw both the races - the women definitely were drafting off the men, but, they ran legit times. They both beat some guys in the race, if that helps you at all.
long sox
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/14/2013 2:09AM - in reply to a standard shmay standard Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Not sure of the exact interpretation, but from the Moscow 2013 entry standards...

===

Performances achieved in mixed events between male and female participants (see Rule 147) will only be accepted under the following circumstances:

o For all field events and races of 5000m and over held completely in the stadium the results will be:
1. Automatically accepted if achieved at National Permit competitions
2. Accepted only with the Area Association's approval if achieved at competitions under IAAF Rule 1.1 (i) and (j)
3. Never accepted if achieved at competitions conducted under IAAF Rule1.1 (a) to (h)

o For road races (marathons and race walks) the results will always be accepted

===

There is a difference between records, where mixed races are not allowed, and qualifying times, where at least in some cases they are.

To run a record in an all women race, the record breaker must take the lead at some point and win the race. In a mixed race, if it were allowed, the leading women could set a record without ever leading the race.

However, to run a qualifying time in an all women race, the runner can come first, second or last and it does not matter as long as the time is fast enough.

I'm not sure how much difference it makes if those other 15 minute 5k runners, are a bunch of Kenyan women in a diamond league race, or a bunch of guys running in Boston.
Bostonian
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/14/2013 6:34AM - in reply to Dunston Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Dunston wrote:

I don't believe the IAAF changed anything.


Well then, perhaps you should review the rules.

RULE 147 (IAAF Competition Rules 2012-2013, pg 138)
Mixed Competition
For all competitions held completely in the stadium, mixed events between
male and female participants shall not normally be permitted.
However, mixed stadium competition in Field Events and in races of
5000m or longer may be permitted in all competitions except those held
under Rules 1.1(a) to (h). In the case of competitions held under Rules
1.1(i) and (j) such mixed competition shall be allowed in a particular
competition if specifically permitted by the relevant Area governing body.

IAAF World Championship Qualifying website:

Performances achieved in mixed events between male and female participants

(see Rule 147) will only be accepted under the following circumstances:

o For all field events and races of 5000m and over held completely in the

stadium the results will be:

- Automatically accepted if achieved at National Permit competitions

- Accepted only with the Area Association's approval if achieved at

competitions under IAAF Rule 1.1 (i) and (j)

- Never accepted if achieved at competitions conducted under IAAF

Rule 1.1 (a) to (h)

o For road races (marathons and race walks) the results will always be

accepted



From Duffy Mahoney @ USATF:
5,000 and 10,000 meter races, which are mixed gender, and held inside a stadium and which are USATF sanctioned will be acceptable for qualifying for U.S. and World Championships meets.
MassHole Runner
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/14/2013 10:05AM - in reply to Bostonian Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My guess is that if enough women do this and you start to see co-ed races popping up all over the place, then they'll change the rule back to not allow it. Until then though, I don't see any reason why women shouldn't take advantage of the rule.

Last year there were only a few American women under the A standards in the 5k and 10k going into the trials with many others not too far off. So if running in a co-ed race might be the difference between the A standard and the B standard, I don't know why they wouldn't do it.
Think about it
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/14/2013 11:27AM - in reply to MassHole Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make a ton of difference whether a woman runs an A standard amongst a field of fast women or regional level men. They still have to run the time. The difference is that it's easier to congregate a field of regional level men to get the standards. It's a tool that levels the playing field a bit for those who don't have the travel budget to circle the globe in search of fast races.

To make the team, you still have to beat women at your national championships so having the A standard or not won't matter if you can't perform on the day (especially if more women end up with the opportunity to get to the trials with an A standard already in their back pocket, which is something we didn't have in 2012. Hence the Kim Conley phenomenon).
Sanction
RE: Kim Smith 15:02 5k, Molly Huddle 8:57 3k @ New Balance Boston Twilight Meet! 5/14/2013 9:33PM - in reply to long sox Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
All you need is a USATF Sanction which the IAAF calls a "national permit". Nothing special about the Boston meets.