Is it rude to email a race director asking specifically what the prize is for 1st place?

most RD's out there absolutely HATE those who show up to run really fast. chances are if the race does not offer prize money then the prize for first place is usually a joke. the age group craze is even worse because if the prize for first place isn't good enough, then the age group prizing is just medals, something that has really been devalued by the participation medals out there.

i find it totally insane that prizes are not listed.

what in the world is the deal with that.

where i'm from the prize money and the breakdown is ALWAYS listed. it's one of the first things listed.

yet i go to some races in some parts of 'Murica that say nothing more than "prizes to overall top 3". one time that was a 25 dollar gift certificate. It costs 30 to enter the race!

oh my god. stupid hobby jogging charity crap.

Dear Joe Schmoe (race dirctor),

Some friends of mine and I from (insert neighboring city here) are looking for a race on the 20th. We see that you are hosting one on that date. If you can find time, would you please reply and let us know the start time, acurracy of the course, entry fee, awards, and any other amenities that are not listed on fliers.

Thanks, and hopefully we will see you on the 20th.

Sincerely,

Speed Racer

opinionated guy wrote:

Dear Joe Schmoe (race dirctor),

Some friends of mine and I from (insert neighboring city here) are looking for a race on the 20th. We see that you are hosting one on that date. If you can find time, would you please reply and let us know the start time, acurracy of the course, entry fee, awards, and any other amenities that are not listed on fliers.

Thanks, and hopefully we will see you on the 20th.

Sincerely,

Road Runner

"BEEP BEEP!"

Couldn't have said it better myself. IF the RD doesn't either send you the accuracy or to a greater extent the awards, don't even bother wasting your time.

the post above me did a good job. be subtle.

dont say: hey RD i plan on smoking all the noobs at your race, so what will i be winning?

I got a $100 gift certificate to a restaurant from a certain charity race last year, so I did it again today even with a $45 entry ($35 normal, up ten from last year), took second, first master and the prize: a rock and nothing else. My response: race elsewhere next year. Oh, and they announced that their sponsors took care of all the costs of putting on the race and they took in $300k for their charity. Can't spring for a handful of awards though.

I won a 10k the first 3 years of the race in the low to mid 39s. The 3rd year I was surprised by a $50 gift certificate to a running store for the win.

The following year everybody found out about the winning award and high 37s won the race and 4 guys beat my course record.

That is a prime example of how just a little money will bring out the elite athletes to a race.

Better to keep the big prizes on the down low so you can win them yourself.

Where is high 37 an elite time?

I've noticed this too. RD's, even for some bigger races, are particularly indifferen if not downright hostile to top local runners. I'm not sure why, isn't it nice to have your race won in 15-16 minutes or is everyone nowadays feeling threatened/insecure about a bunch of hard-working, far from elite road runners?

RunWild wrote:

most RD's out there absolutely HATE those who show up to run really fast. chances are if the race does not offer prize money then the prize for first place is usually a joke. the age group craze is even worse because if the prize for first place isn't good enough, then the age group prizing is just medals, something that has really been devalued by the participation medals out there.

Most of the faster local guys come across as entitled pricks.

mgm wrote:

I've noticed this too. RD's, even for some bigger races, are particularly indifferen if not downright hostile to top local runners. I'm not sure why, isn't it nice to have your race won in 15-16 minutes or is everyone nowadays feeling threatened/insecure about a bunch of hard-working, far from elite road runners?

RunWild wrote:

most RD's out there absolutely HATE those who show up to run really fast. chances are if the race does not offer prize money then the prize for first place is usually a joke. the age group craze is even worse because if the prize for first place isn't good enough, then the age group prizing is just medals, something that has really been devalued by the participation medals out there.

I'm going to start by answering the original question: As a race director who has put on races with 100-1500 runners and worked on other events with 5,000-35,000 runners, no, if you do it politely it's not at all a problem if you ask me what the prizes are, or even if you send me your running CV and ask for a comp, as long as you do it politely.

I'm going to finish by going on a tangential rant, which was brought on by this comment:

[quote]Seargent Joe Friday wrote:

Most of the faster local guys come across as entitled pricks.

You know, I repeatedly hear this (local elites come come across as pricks) and I just don't see it in my neck of the woods.

I just got back from helping put on a Mother's Day 5k for my local running club; the guy who won in low-17s came out at 6am to help us set up the finish festival. I don't know the guy who came in second, but the guy who came in third is on the board of the running club with me, was there at 5:30am to help set up the course, and was the last guy there with me helping load stuff back into the storage unit. The woman who won in the mid-19s was a friend of one of our charity beneficiary's employees and helped out at the charity's tent after the race.

Many of the other local 16-18 minute guys and 18-20 minute girls are popular local coaches, or super-friendly and helpful floor guys and managers at the local running stores. Sure, these guys take their running seriously and make sure they line up near the front at the start line and are more likely to run a race with cash or gift certificates as prizes, but they give back a ton to the running community, and are almost uniformly gracious at all the local events I've ever been to.

Yes, a time or two I've seen a local speedster get ugly about going off-course or not appearing in the posted results, but I've also seen penguins get pissed about there not being an XXXL T-shirt option and fourth-place age-groupers complain that if AG awards were done by chip time instead of gun time then they would have placed. From time to time, almost everyone gets ugly if something they care about (which is different parts of the race for different demographics) doesn't go how they want. This is true of local elites as well as back-of-the packers.

So, based on my experiences, if you're going to say local elites come across as pricks, I really think you have to say that road racers as a group come across as pricks. I don't think this is the case at all, though, and I think that in reality, almost all runners of all speeds are largely reasonable and gracious folks--especially if you operate from that assumption to begin with and act as such.

lemonaider wrote:

There are a bunch of upcoming 5k's in my area, none that offer prize $$, but may offer gift certificates or something more to the winner than a trophy.

Anything wrong with me e-mailing all of them and asking what the actual prize would be?

No, and maybe even say in your email "I couldn't tell from the brochure/web site what the awards were or if the course was certified" to remind them that information should be in the race materials so people wouldn't have to ask.

I've RDd for over 10 years. I post the awards for overall and age groups for the purpose of attracting the local talent and list the USATF certification number of the course.

But the races i've directed are sponsored by a running club that has been around since the days when 200 of the 300 entrants of a 10 miler would break 60. In other words, you didn't have races that didn't have accurate courses!

The key to comping is that the RD has to have a standard in mind for comps and the runner needs to enter ahead of time. I would comp top local talent who asked a couple of weeks prior to race day. But no way would i comp on race day.

Not An Expert wrote:

So, based on my experiences, if you're going to say local elites come across as pricks, I really think you have to say that road racers as a group come across as pricks. I don't think this is the case at all, though, and I think that in reality, almost all runners of all speeds are largely reasonable and gracious folks--especially if you operate from that assumption to begin with and act as such.

And why stop there? Is there any segment of society that is void of pricks/jerks/betches?

I think successful road racers make easy targets to call "pricks" because we're general very fit and successful at something (racing) that most of the population is afraid of/can't do. Whether consciously or subconsciously people are envious of this state (not exclusively). Add to that even a hint of confidence and any-and-every soccer-mom and ballerina-dad will jump on you (though almost exclusively behind your back).

Personally, if a road race doesn't offer money, I don't run in it. Even you 17min guys, you are working way too hard to pay (anything +$20) to race without atleast the possibility of prize money. As a group, (competitive, sub-sub elite road racers) hold the line on this. Road race "directing" is becoming a career for some guys; don't think they're not taking a cut from the "charity."

Seriously? As a former "17 min guy" I never ran in a race because there was or was not prize money. I picked races because the competition was good, or the race had a good reputation, or the course looked fun or challenging, or because my friends and training partners were racing it, or because I was on vacation somewhere and there happened to be a race there. But never with any thought as to what I might win. As a 17 min guy there were a lot more important things to me than worrying about winning a bit of cash or a gift certificate, like how to become a 16 min guy. It was never about how hard I was working and what I deserved to get out of that time/effort, it was about enjoying the sport and trying to get better.

Setting aside the idea that an RD might be "taking a cut from the charity" and what that insinuates, what do you have against an RD making money off producing a race? Do you think the timing company does it for free? How about registration, do you think Active provides the service for free? What about the cops providing traffic control? If an RD does a good job putting on a race that I want to do I have no problem with that guy making a few bucks for their effort. And if an RD gets good at it and consistently puts on the best races I want to incentivize him into keeping doing it.

On the other hand, races that are not well thought out, the RD definitely deserves to lose their shirt. We recently had a race come to town, short distance (I'll keep this somewhat generic to protect the guilty), entry fee was ~$80 plus $7+/- online registration charge. It was to be held at a rented private venue, so they also thought it was a good idea to charge $20 to be a spectator. Of course no prize money the organizers were an out-of-town for-profit company. Fortunately runners had the good sense to avoid this one like the plague, I am told they had 40 registered runners, slightly short of their cap of 500. They cancelled.

If the local hotshot runners want to make a little money maybe they should be more like my golf buddies...Get 12-20 guys together, show up Saturday morning, everybody puts $20 in, winner gets 50%, 2nd gets 30%, 3rd gets 20%. Your entry fee is the parallel to the green fees or membership to get on the course, cost of doing business. If you have a group that does this regularly you could even build in handicaps and split the money gross/net.

(Too much time on my hands this afternoon)

Sorry, I forgot the "unbold" tag!!

d2xccoach wrote:

Seriously? As a former "17 min guy" I never ran in a race because there was or was not prize money. I picked races because the competition was good, or the race had a good reputation, or the course looked fun or challenging, or because my friends and training partners were racing it, or because I was on vacation somewhere and there happened to be a race there.

Amen!

d2xccoach wrote:

what do you have against an RD making money off producing a race? . . . if an RD gets good at it and consistently puts on the best races I want to incentivize him into keeping doing it.

Again, amen! (This is a pretty obvious thing for a race director for hire to be seconding, I suppose.)

d2xccoach wrote:

(Too much time on my hands this afternoon)

Are you sure you're not just me, posting under another screen name (people have been known to do that in these parts, I hear)?

And that was just a list of some of the most weak-sauce reasons to run in a race and, more importantly, I believe, fundamentally, this sort of willy-nilly mentality is what was wrong with.running in America for the last two decades. Show me a competitive east African who shows up at a race because "the course looked like fun" or, haha, "I was on vacation." Toe the line, break the tape, get paid.

Now if your general argument was "I'm not good enough to every win anything anyways so I'll just mess around with my buddies," ok, so be it. But the thrust of this thread is a blood-hungry runner who's good enough to fight for the prize. The only tie-in you have is that I was encouraging hard-working, ambitious 17min to have a little esteem and go for the win and try to get paid doing it. If you're happy running for 4th place, knock yourself out.

Right, and for all those reasons, why shouldn't some money be put aside to support the top runners in your area. Are their efforts that morning/afternoon not worthy of bounty? Otherwise stop calling them "races", call them "charity events" and have everyone walk/jog around a track.

I agree. I pushed and pushed a local race that I help put on to offer $100 to the winner $50 to second and $25 to third. The race director said no way that it wouldn't affect turnout and that it would cost them $350. Personally I was disappointed and chose not to run and stopped helping out. There are basically no races in our area that offer money.