ConfusedRunner
Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 2:14AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Monday: Intervals at 1600 pace with equal or slightly more rest. For ex: 2x9x200m avg 34s with 46s rest, 8x355m repeats with equal rest

Tuesday: Repetitions at 800m pace with 2-3 minutes rest. For ex: 2x6x200m avg. 30.5 with 2 minutes rest, 8x300m avg 47 with 3 minutes rest

Wednesday: Recovery run at 7:30-8:30 pace for 45 minutes w/ 5x30 seconds of strides

Thursday: Tempo 5x3 minutes at 3200m-5k pace with 1 minute rest

Friday: Recovery run of 3 miles

Saturday: Race..if no race long run of 10 miles

Sunday: Recovery 45 minutes at 7:30-8:30

I was just taking a glimpse at Scott Christensen's track workouts..and the pace for intervals is based around the 3200m Repetition work is based around 1600m pace! So confused..it feels like I'm flatlining with these hard anaerobic heavy intervals. What do you guys think?

http://www.ustfccca.org/assets/symposiums/2010/Scott-Christensen_Preparation-Elite-Junior-Miler.pdf
Gnomebe
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 8:55AM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I like your coaches style.

I used to do:
Mon. 10 mile mountain run
Tue. 16x800
Wed. 8 miles med.
Thurs. 6xmile hualing ass
Fri. 5miles
Sat. Race 10k
Sun. 16 miles
All above 7000ft. Altitude.
Your coach has the right idea. Slack off a bit on "non-speed/track days".
t94bell
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 9:00AM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Doesn't look too bad, the only one that would really get me is that "tempo" run on Thursday. 2 mile pace is not fooling around. Even 5K pace is fairly brisk.
Mick Lovin
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 1:15PM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Sounds like the team is a bunch of p*ssies
joho
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 1:20PM - in reply to Mick Lovin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Mick Lovin wrote:

Sounds like the team is a bunch of p*ssies



+1

Train hard win easy
ConfusedRunner
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 7:37PM - in reply to joho Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So why's Scott Christensen and his boys doing interval work at 3200m pace with equal rest and repetitions at 1600m pace with some pretty damn decent rest? Those fellas are as quick as heck We've been hauling our butts and hitting none of these goal paces for races.
Done it Before
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 10:07PM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Those workouts all together look pretty tough but doable. You will learn to run relaxed and learn your paces. Monday's 200s should be a med workout.

You have to beleave in your coach. His plan might be to reduce the workouts in may so you are sharp during the Championship period.

Oregon's Coach Bill Dellinger had some crazy workouts. You really felt no other team could run with you because you worked harder than any one.

Coach had us do 6 X 200 in 26 at noon on our spring trip at the Sacramento track. The Sacramento runners watched our workout and assumed we were not running the meet that night. That night we raced either 800 or 1500 and blew them away.
Uh hello
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/29/2013 11:48PM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This one week, but we have no idea what preceded it, what follows, and what the objectives are.

You might as well ask me if an elephant is a nice piece of art and then only let me touch its ear while wearing a blindfold.

So, it could be brilliant, or totally amatuer.
ConfusedRunner
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 1:29AM - in reply to Done it Before Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks for the reply, guys! Very motivating. And to answer questions, this is the interval phase of Jack Daniels' Running Formula. We've got about 2.5 more weeks until we cut volume and bump the intensity. I guess what's been throwing me off this season is the back-to-back hard days.
DonDraper
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 5:34AM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Kid- you're a pu$$y- those workouts are fine- your supposed to be tired you fruit
lease
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 6:48AM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ConfusedRunner wrote:

I guess what's been throwing me off this season is the back-to-back hard days.

That's a standard part of Jack's training schemes. The idea is to avoid killing yourself on the first day, knowing that you've got another toughie on the second--it's actually supposed to be a moderating element in your training.

Of course, that implies that the athletes (individually and as a group) have the maturity to avoid racing in practice! It helps a lot of guys if they let someone else "win" all the practices, and just focus themselves on running all the practices with a bit of reserve--then trying to win in the actual meets.
MikeM
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 11:19AM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Just make sure to truly take the recovery days as recovery and also don't race the intervals. It is ok to feel like the workload is tough...running faster requires it. This is why a lot of very good coaches/runners say to not be workout hero. You are doing the workouts trying to be as relaxed as possible...not winning intervals or workouts, but simply getting in the work week after week. Your fitness will come, the workouts will seem easier (still make sure not to race them!) and your times will drop.
turkey leg
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 12:18PM - in reply to MikeM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I guess I will offer the token dissenting opinion. How old is the average team member and how much base do you have? Unless your team has a monster base, and I'm talking about 3+ months of 60+ miles per week, this schedule is too one dimensional if this is what is being repeated for more than two weeks straight. All of the hard work is centered around 8-1500 pace with only 30-60 second intervals, except for a 5x3min "tempo" at 3200-5k pace. That's not alarming to anyone else? That "tempo", with those paces and format looks more like an interval workout.

I'm all for hard work, but there's a point of diminishing return. The work loads of these workouts look more like for someone with years of base and can supplement with easy distance runs in the morning or evening to balance with. By themselves, it's only a matter of time before the body implodes.

Sorry to be negative, but that's what my experience tells me. I think you'll be better off if at the least, you can reduce the amount of the monday reps and slow the tempo down to at least 10k pace.
mgm
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 12:30PM - in reply to turkey leg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

turkey leg wrote:

I guess I will offer the token dissenting opinion. How old is the average team member and how much base do you have? Unless your team has a monster base, and I'm talking about 3+ months of 60+ miles per week, this schedule is too one dimensional if this is what is being repeated for more than two weeks straight. All of the hard work is centered around 8-1500 pace with only 30-60 second intervals, except for a 5x3min "tempo" at 3200-5k pace. That's not alarming to anyone else? That "tempo", with those paces and format looks more like an interval workout.

I agree. The posters before are probably HS kids who don't know any better. This schedule cannot be sustained for more than a month TOPS before experiencing diminishing returns. If you are an 800m runner trying to peak in mid-April then disregard my post.

I'm all for hard work, but there's a point of diminishing return. The work loads of these workouts look more like for someone with years of base and can supplement with easy distance runs in the morning or evening to balance with. By themselves, it's only a matter of time before the body implodes.

Sorry to be negative, but that's what my experience tells me. I think you'll be better off if at the least, you can reduce the amount of the monday reps and slow the tempo down to at least 10k pace.
TalkinPoint
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 4:00PM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So what would you want to do for practice?
Uh Hello
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 4:28PM - in reply to turkey leg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

turkey leg wrote:

I guess I will offer the token dissenting opinion... That's not alarming to anyone else?


Yeah, initial take is that it is alarming in the sense it challenges my reality of properly building the successful physiology and psychology of an endurance athlete. That being said, without knowing what precedes this one example week, what follows and when the major objective is, I really can't say for sure if it's brilliant strategy on the coach's part, or if it's the work of an amateur.
ConfusedRunner
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 4:29PM - in reply to turkey leg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This is exactly how I feel! I just feel like we rushed into all the hard anaerobic work without a huge base..I've been so up and down with my season. Last month I was trying to run 60 mpw while doing a similar schedule in the repetition phase. Completely broke down. The average age group for us is 16. I came in with a base of 40 miles for 2 months. We started track work at the beginning of January.
ConfusedRunner
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/30/2013 4:35PM - in reply to TalkinPoint Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I wish we'd taken longer to properly establish a base..starting track work in January is brutal without the buildup of at least 2 months.
Done it Before
RE: Coach running us into the ground? 3/31/2013 1:12PM - in reply to ConfusedRunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Your Coach's program works well for a track team with athletic guys. Some of them might be from other sports and he is focusing on what will fill many track events. I bet your team will have a great 4 X 800 and 4 X 400. Nothing there is hard anaerobic work, just mostly fast pace work.
If you have had better experience with higher mileage and less intervals talk to your coach.