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3sport
Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/23/2013 1:22PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have a few questions (I'll try to keep them short) which I'd very much like to get some feedback on. I've been a runner all my life (I'm in my mid 40's) and I'm an Ironman Triathlete, so I've certainly logged a good number of running miles through out the years. I had never had any hint of plantar fasciitis in all my years of running and competing, until I switched from a traditional 12mm heel to toe drop shoe, and began alternating between an 8mm drop shoe and a 4mm drop shoe. The 4mm drop shoe didn't feel right from the get go and I should have listened to my feet, but I just thought my feet needed time to get use to the lower drop. Needless to say, soon after switching to the 4mm drop shoes (the 8mm drop shoes felt good)I developed a solid case of PF. Is it logical to assume that lower drop shoes(4mm to 0mm)are a likely cause for developing PF, as lower drop shoes place more stress on the plantar fascia? I talked to one runner, who works in a speciality running store, who dealt with his own issues of PF for 2 1/2 years, before returning to running. He recommended I switch to a specific shoe that is extremely well cushioned (which I'm all for) but it's a 4mm heel to toe drop shoe (which I'm very leery of, obviously). When I return to running, would staying away from low drop shoes and returning to a 12 mm drop shoe, be my best bet for keeping PF at bay? And finally, when do I know it's OK to return to running? I haven't ran in 3 months, during which time, I've been stretching and rolling. At this point, I have no pain, and only very slight tightness, but not pain, in my heel when getting out of bed in the mornings. Should I wait until there is no discomfort, or sensation, at all in my heel before I return to running, or with new shoes and wearing a Feetures plantar fasciits sleeve sock (any thoughts on these sleeve socks?), can I return to short runs without re-aggravating the plantar fascia? OK, maybe not as short as I was hoping, but thanks for any input anyone can provide me.
Charlie
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 9:34PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The shoes I will leave up to someone else but will say the skechers Go Run was a big part of me keeping my chronic pf at bay.

Next up is foot strike if you are a heel striker and you went with a lower heeled shoe you probably did this too fast

Next are all about my calf muscles they used to be like concrete just awful since I switched to the mid foot strike about a year ago after 5 years off my calf muscles are supple and loose relaxed the feet/toes ankles and lower legs are intimately connected

and last but not least strong feet and toes that articulate this is the real key a foot toe ankle that functions well protects the pf from being overloaded at that little inner rear connection point walking barefoot especially after runs on cold but not frozen soft ground for 10 minutes really helped

so now I am pf pain free good luck this one can be a real bad one to cure
really??????
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 9:47PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The lower drop shoes are generally less cushioned and if you have a hint of a heel strike it can give you trouble. And your form may be good but if you fatigue at high miles and start heel striking like a lot of people do, it can be problematic. Also, if your calves and achilles are generally inflexible, your PF can get irritated. I would stick with the 8mm for now and make sure you don't heel strike unless you have more cushion in your shoes. What 4mm drop shoes do you have?
Stick with what you know works
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 10:06PM - in reply to really?????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I disagree that footstrike has to do with it. Check this out: http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/which-injuries-are-probably-more-common-in-which-foot-strike-pattern/

You were also running just fine and staying healthy in the 12mm drop shoes. I'd highly recommend going back to them, maybe continuing to rotate in the 8mm ones if they feel good. Some people do great in low-drop shoes, others don't. Some can transition to them right away, others take a long time to transition, and yet others are unable to transition at all. There are a variety of reasons this might be, ranging from bone structure to ligament laxity to genetic disposition towards certain muscles being stronger than others to strength and flexibility. Some of those factors can be changed, and others can't. If you are one of those who can transition super slowly, then you have to ask yourself what's more important: running fast or transitioning to wearing pretty shoes?

In the meantime, stretch your plantar fascia. Find the point it hurts, put some pressure on it with your thumb, and move your toes back and forth. Also roll it out with a golf ball. If you feel like you're not getting deep enough on your own, schedule a couple ART or Graston appointments. Also, I agree with the guy who said that tight calf muscles (particularly gastroc and soleus) can contribute, so stretch them out too.
Rbyrne
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 10:12PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have the same issue and have had PF for 17 months. I believe it all started when I began using a 4mm heel drop too. Historically, I wore a stability shoe but then decided to switch to a neutral shoe for training and a 4mm drop shoe for tempos and track. everything seemed to be working out great! In fact, I went about 8 months without ever catching a bad run...I was truly amazed...However, I had noticed that after my runs and when getting out of a vehicle that my Achilles was tight...It never became sore nor it develop into tendinitis...then after an 8 mile progression run one day, during my CD, I developed PF! That was 17 months ago. When I started back I stuck with the neutral shoes and stayed clear of the 4mm shoes. However, after building back up for 8 months after initial the injury the PF became increasingly worse. I am now trying to get back into a stability shoe but they feel horrible...

I have taken about 300 days off in the past 17 months and I still have PF...I had injections, ART, Ice, slept in a splint, NSAIDS, switched back to my ridged orthotics versus a softer one, taped the foot, ran with a compression sleeve on it and wear a more ridged shoe during the day--as the walking shoe was a low profile shoe as well...but still battling PF.

I ran 8.5 miles today but not very enjoyable knowing I cannot train but merely run...

I do think the 4mm shoes overloaded my PF

Best wishes
Rbyrne
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 10:20PM - in reply to Rbyrne Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
meant ridgid
Stick with what you know works
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 10:29PM - in reply to Rbyrne Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Rbyrne, honestly, after that long, it sounds like you're stuck in a self-perpetuating chronic inflammatory cycle. You need to find something to break down whatever is keeping you there (proponents of manual therapy will say it's adhesions and fibrosis), and restart the healing process. I see you said ART didn't work, but there's still treatment like Graston and EWST, and it looks like you haven't tried actually immobilizing it (which probably won't do anything now if done on its own, but may be of use when used in conjunction with, say, shockwave). If you have the money to drop, PRP may be an option too. And there's always surgery, but that should always be a last resort.
walking shoes
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/24/2013 11:43PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I agree with sticking with what worked before. I know the main issue here is changing the type of running shoe, but I want to add another thing to consider is the shoes you walk around in. The only injury problems I've ever had have been pf/heal pain related, and I've found what makes the biggest difference is not my running shoes but the shoes I walk around in for the rest of the day.

In high school I had foot pain suddenly flare up so bad I had to miss a meet and a few days of training. I switched from my "cool" normal kid walking around shoes to an old pair of trainers, and the pain went disappeared in a matter of days. I've had foot pain come back a couple more times since then, and each time what helped wasn't getting new running shoes but instead getting new shoes to walk around in. Just something to keep in mind.
ronnie lane
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/25/2013 8:19AM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I would rotate shoes with different drops. Challenge the foot in different ways, keep it fresh.

I would also encourage you look beyond shoes/the foot for some answers. Do you store a lot of tension in your calves? Are you knotted up in the soleus? Look up some trigger points for the soleus muscle and work on releasing some tension down there. The main one is right at the bottom of the gastrocnemus.

The plantar fascia are anchor points for the soleus. Release tension in the soleus and you reduce pressure on the plantar fascia. Use a lacrose ball or something round and firm and work into those trigger point areas.
Rocky Balboa
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/25/2013 8:22AM - in reply to ronnie lane Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
One good, well-placed cortisone shot (Triamcinolone Acetonide) in the heel, and you are done with PF.
ataglance
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/25/2013 8:27AM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I dont know about shoes. Personally i do better in a light weight trainer, with good flexibility.

Focus on treatment, no the shoe.
ukathleticscoach
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/25/2013 10:24AM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Had this for few years and now under control

Obviously shoe change did not work for you

The worst thing is not just the drop but the lack of arch support

Wear some slippers when you get up in the morning and stretch your foot before putting down. First steps in mornning is where you are damaging it. Saves wearing sock all night and has same effect

I got these off the shelf insoles for wearing in running shoes plus shoes when driving which is a killer for your feet

Tried massage etc but main thing helped for me is heel drops on stairs and time resting

Yours sounds like its getting better if running does not make it worse should be ok. After running and at end of shower switch to cold and put put on both soles - alos helps for pain in morning
backfixer
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/27/2013 1:55PM - in reply to Charlie Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Plantar fasciitis, while felt at the foot, has quite a bit to do with core issues. Typically, the core is torqued because the myofascia in the pelvis and mid back distorts the core.

Since we base the way we feel and our "normal" on how we see ourselves at the age of about 6, we all have our bias based on what we have experienced. In other words, you can be very tight all the time, totally inflexible and think this is normal. The question should be is there a normal or is there a normal for you or does normal mean the way we always feel (sore, tight, etc) and then when we hurt, this is called abnormal.

The reason I bring this up is because we are all built differently, and to suggest any one type of shoe or way of walking is incorrect, or by switching from one shoe to the other created a problem, may be missing the point.

Since some of us are built more symmetrically than others, and since we come in all different shapes and sizes, it stands to reason that certain shoe designs may work better for you since it levels the hips and improves the function of the core which if working properly absorbs most of the force from the ground when running and walking. If running shod (regular shoes), this means a more open stride and more of a heel strike. If running barefoot, a mid foot strike is expected and according to those who advocate barefoot walking and running, more instrinsic foot muscle use and strengthening.

If the core functions poorly, no matter how you walk or run, you will pound the leg into the ground and end up with tight calves and other running issues such as plantar fasciitis.

Sometimes, changing the shoe style is more anatomically correct for your body style, alleviating the symptoms as the core works better and the legs becomes less tight. Other times, intervention may be necessary such as fascial release, art or graston technique.

One more thing - if the tissues surrounding the ankle and foot are tight, and do not allow the foot to move properly, it too will cause plantar fasciitis because the hip will also tighten in response, messing up your gait. Unfortunately, the knee often takes the brunt of this. Seeing a good sports chiropractor can help with the motion of the foot as well as the other articulations in the hips and back.
oatmeal + water
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/27/2013 2:12PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've run with PF after taping my foot up using the low dye method (google it for tips). It really helps me. In fact, my foot is taped up now.
really??????
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/27/2013 2:23PM - in reply to Rocky Balboa Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
From the patients i see in my office, cortisone shots for PF rarely work.


Rocky Balboa wrote:

One good, well-placed cortisone shot (Triamcinolone Acetonide) in the heel, and you are done with PF.
Clam Evans
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 3/27/2013 4:51PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

3sport wrote:

I have a few questions (I'll try to keep them short) which I'd very much like to get some feedback on. I've been a runner all my life (I'm in my mid 40's) and I'm an Ironman Triathlete, so I've certainly logged a good number of running miles through out the years. I had never had any hint of plantar fasciitis in all my years of running and competing, until I switched from a traditional 12mm heel to toe drop shoe, and began alternating between an 8mm drop shoe and a 4mm drop shoe. The 4mm drop shoe didn't feel right from the get go and I should have listened to my feet, but I just thought my feet needed time to get use to the lower drop. Needless to say, soon after switching to the 4mm drop shoes (the 8mm drop shoes felt good)I developed a solid case of PF. Is it logical to assume that lower drop shoes(4mm to 0mm)are a likely cause for developing PF, as lower drop shoes place more stress on the plantar fascia? I talked to one runner, who works in a speciality running store, who dealt with his own issues of PF for 2 1/2 years, before returning to running. He recommended I switch to a specific shoe that is extremely well cushioned (which I'm all for) but it's a 4mm heel to toe drop shoe (which I'm very leery of, obviously). When I return to running, would staying away from low drop shoes and returning to a 12 mm drop shoe, be my best bet for keeping PF at bay? And finally, when do I know it's OK to return to running? I haven't ran in 3 months, during which time, I've been stretching and rolling. At this point, I have no pain, and only very slight tightness, but not pain, in my heel when getting out of bed in the mornings. Should I wait until there is no discomfort, or sensation, at all in my heel before I return to running, or with new shoes and wearing a Feetures plantar fasciits sleeve sock (any thoughts on these sleeve socks?), can I return to short runs without re-aggravating the plantar fascia? OK, maybe not as short as I was hoping, but thanks for any input anyone can provide me.


Mine feels MUCH better with the Feetures sleeve. I also wear a Dorsal PF night splint every night. For shoes I wear Nike Streak 3s with Dr Scholl's insoles.
samaha01887
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 6/14/2013 11:52AM - in reply to Rocky Balboa Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I had the cortisone shot and I am still battling PF.
Not a Coach
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 6/14/2013 11:59AM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have heel pain after road races in my racing flats.

I subsequently a Strassburg sock in bed for a few nights and use an arch support in my shoes and the heel pain dissipates after a few days.

My Physical Therapist also recommends using a foam roller and massage to relieve foot pain.
ataglance.
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 6/14/2013 12:43PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You can search and find a ton of thread re: PF treatment.

Work on stretching your calf muscles.
-eccentric heel drops

-pick up a towel with your toes 10x

- roll on a golf ball .60 per foot

- walk on your tip toes .120 sec

- wrap your foot during the day with a simple ace bandage. A tight as you can stand and still get blood flow.

- prescription strength anti-inflammatory can help.

If someone invented a running shoe that cured PF they'd be a rich rich man. Dont look to the shoe, look at getting treated and healed.
fdhdf
RE: Plantar Fasciitis Questions 6/14/2013 1:07PM - in reply to 3sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Wow this seems odd to me. In my case I could not get the PF to go away at all using my orthotics just made it worse. I then threw them out and wore a 12mm shoe which helped a bit.
I went minimal and run in 4mm and 8mm shoes and no longer have PF.

Sounds to me like you have some structural weakness from so many years in full support shoes. Ever consider long walks/hikes in minimal shoes? Strengthens the feet without the impact. That's ultimately how I got rid of my PF. That and calf stretching, icing, etc.
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