Something to ponder, Mary Cain beat Emma Coburn (NCAA mile champ) and Abbey D'Agostino (NCAA 3k/5k) prior to 2013 NCAAs

Speaking of Cain, there is a nice profile of her in her local paper:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20130309/SPORTS02/303090048/Mary-Cain-fast-track-success?nclick_check=1

She's apparently incredible in school as well - 4.2 GPA.

Mile but It would be a lot different of a race then the one in which she beat them womens mile at millrose might be a big deal to some but if cain was in the field im sure they wouldnt lose to her in a kick like at usa indoors and they would try to push the pace more. Just my thoughts thpugh it could be a repeat of the same but weird as it sounds usa national indoors in a non championship year are probably on par or less than ncaa quality

The 3k would have been spectacular. Abbey D tightening the screws on the last few laps and Cain sitting on her. No way to know who would come out on top in that situation without running the race. Hopefully they get in the same 3k or 2 mile outdoors.

If only abbey were a sophmore and this would be a possible match up. First time they match up in a national championship could probably be the next usa indoor nationals 3k when a world team is chosen.

Question if abbey were in the 10k at eugene this summer and helped push the pace do you think she could of snuck in under the a standard and made the olympics?

LetsRun.com wrote:

Pretty incredible to consider really. At Millrose, the results were as follows:

2 Mary Cain USA 3 May 96 4:28.25

3 Kate Grace USA 24 Oct 88 4:28.79

4 Emma Coburn USA 19 Oct 90 4:29.86

5 Abbey D'Agostino USA 25 May 92 4:30.03

What NCAA titles do you think Cain could have won, if any?

The mile seems to the most likely. We don't think she touches Abbey in the 5k.

This is true, but don't forget Abbey and Emma were not aiming for Millrose.

800m Coach wrote:

This is true, but don't forget Abbey and Emma were not aiming for Millrose.

But they WERE aiming for NCAA indoors, and Mary still would have killed them. Mary MIGHT have been able to pull off the 800/mile double.

While her talent overall is stunning I don't think anything she's actually done this winter was a shock. I didn't expect it but I certainly thought it was possible.

She's apparently incredible in school as well

Distance athletes are the smartest. Ever year my state's all-scholastic CC team reads like a who's who of elite college choices.

Interesting hypothetical. It also raises the question of whether she should run in college or go pro. I think she should run college if her goal is to be a 5000 meter runner. She could gain from XC, etc.

Mary Cain is the future, the rest are just pretenders.

Not damn event.

Samiamamam wrote:

Interesting hypothetical. It also raises the question of whether she should run in college or go pro. I think she should run college if her goal is to be a 5000 meter runner. She could gain from XC, etc.

Why not just go pro and have her sponsor pay her tuition? Best of both worlds.

Samiamamam wrote:

Interesting hypothetical. It also raises the question of whether she should run in college or go pro. I think she should run college if her goal is to be a 5000 meter runner. She could gain from XC, etc.

She should go pro. I don't think she really cares about Cross Country that much or that it would play to her strengths. If she goes pro, she could focus next year for USA Indoor nationals and most likely make the team for World Indoors and then she'll be at her first senior world championship. Then take it from there

As a side note are you all aware that Mary Cain is not the only high schooler to beat an NCAA champ. Alan Webb beat the current NCAA 1500M champ , Bryan Berryhill when he set the national high school record at the Prefontaine classic. I wonder if other guys like Jim Ryun, Marty Liquori, Pre & Gerry Lindgren or any other high schoolers in any event ever beat NCAA champs? I'm too lazy to look it up.

I don't think so. Emma and maybe Abby would have flipped the script on Mary at NCAAs, however Mary is a once in a lifetime talent, no argument there.

coach d wrote:

But they WERE aiming for NCAA indoors, and Mary still would have killed them. Mary MIGHT have been able to pull off the 800/mile double.

GHT wrote:

As a side note are you all aware that Mary Cain is not the only high schooler to beat an NCAA champ. Alan Webb beat the current NCAA 1500M champ , Bryan Berryhill when he set the national high school record at the Prefontaine classic. I wonder if other guys like Jim Ryun, Marty Liquori, Pre & Gerry Lindgren or any other high schoolers in any event ever beat NCAA champs? I'm too lazy to look it up.

Gerry Lindgren was on another level. He challenged Ron Clarke indoors when he ran his 49 year old HS record of 8:40.0 on an 11 lap to the mile board track leading nearly the entire race. Way better than Cheserek's recent performance that broke it by less than one second. He also beat the russians over 10,000m and beat billy mills to make the olympic team. Likely would have won gold had he not twisted his ankle several days before the 10k final in tokyo.

Jim Ryun broke the american record for the mile his senior year of high school and beat the reigning olympic gold & silver medalists over 1500m (Peter Snell & Josef Odlozil) simultaneously. That tops beating any NCAA champ, although he may have done that too, I'd have to look it up.

Ryun was also the NCAA champ when Liquori was a senior in '67 so obviously he never beat him, but he did go sub 4 in the same race Ryun ran his solo 3:51.1 in bakersfield.

Pre ran something like 13:51 his senior year so not quite as good as the other three in terms of international competitiveness but obviously still quite good. His 8:41.5 outdoor 2 mile HS record was faster than Frank Shorter had run for 2 miles at the time.

Just want to say I got a laugh out your handle. Good to see you guys showing a sense of humor. No sarcasm at all.

She would have had to run faster than her outdoor PR in the 800 by more than a second, after running heats in both the 800 and mile and the mile final. I don't think Mary Cain could have won that double.

Maybe she could have beaten Coburn in the mile, but the fact there was a prelim that required sub 4:40 to advance changes things significantly. Coburn ran .05 slower than at Millrose in the final, after a 4:37 in her prelim. Cain might have been able to beat her in the final under those circumstances, but it's completely different from a one-shot race in an invitational.

The increase of media coverage of U.S. Women's distance running is a very good thing. There is a pool of young talent which is years from peaking (Abbey, Mary, Aisling, Ajee , Sara etc). These women are all competitive and with increasing media coverage, all will be motivated to raise their game. The next few years should be great.

Anticompliment wrote:

Mile but It would be a lot different of a race then the one in which she beat them womens mile at millrose might be a big deal to some but if cain was in the field im sure they wouldnt lose to her in a kick like at usa indoors and they would try to push the pace more. Just my thoughts thpugh it could be a repeat of the same but weird as it sounds usa national indoors in a non championship year are probably on par or less than ncaa quality

What is your first language?