Workouts for 800m in three weeks

You need to up the distance of the repeats as there is no real lactic acid buildup below 300 or so meters, nor are you allowing yourself to get use to keeping up that pace for longer than 300m. 4x400 at race pace or even a second underneath it, maybe a few 500s or 600s. You could also throw in a nice ladder from 100-200 (every ten meters).

You need to some combination of 200s, 300s and 400s at 800 race pace. Here are some examples:

• 3-4 x (300 @800 race pace, 20sec walk, 400 @ 2 mile speed, 5 mins between sets. It forces you to run relaxed even at slower than 800 speed, keeping your form, when you're hurting

• 200-300-400-300-200-300-400, 2100m total, 2 min rests, all at 800 race pace. Focus on keeping form under strain, and you can do them at the different parts of the track to mimic what you’ll be doing in a race, last 400 you run as if it’s the full 2nd lap of a race

• 6-7 x 300s is another, on 2 min rests, or 5 x 350s

Then as you get closer to the main race:

• 2 x 600 @ race pace for 1st 600 of 800 [8-10’], so say 30-33-33 OR

• 2 x 2 x 400, with only 2 mins recovery, and 5-10 mins between sets, but at 800 pace or marginally faster

Karma Police wrote:

You need to some combination of 200s, 300s and 400s at 800 race pace. Here are some examples:

• 200-300-400-300-200-300-400, 2100m total, 2 min rests, all at 800 race pace. Focus on keeping form under strain...

I like this workout and will try it, but I'm over 60 and lack the endurance to complete these at goal pace with only 2 min recovery. I could increase the recovery to 6 min before and after the 400m's. Or I could run them slower... maybe 2 sec slower per 200m than goal pace. Which do you think would be best?

Obviously, I'd try to get down to a 2 min recovery over a few sessions, but that's not realistic in two weeks. Maybe by summer...

My favorite mid-distance workouts (back in the day) were split 500's (or 400's or 600's).

So you run a total of a lap and a half for a split 500.

Run 300m at mile pace

Jog 100m

Run 200m "fast"

Adjust to your taste, but I always liked how in one workout you do race-pace and speed work. Plus, by linking the pace work and the speed work I always felt like I was practiced in changing gears - which can come in handy.

fisky wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

You need to some combination of 200s, 300s and 400s at 800 race pace. Here are some examples:

• 200-300-400-300-200-300-400, 2100m total, 2 min rests, all at 800 race pace. Focus on keeping form under strain...

I like this workout and will try it, but I'm over 60 and lack the endurance to complete these at goal pace with only 2 min recovery. I could increase the recovery to 6 min before and after the 400m's. Or I could run them slower... maybe 2 sec slower per 200m than goal pace. Which do you think would be best?

Obviously, I'd try to get down to a 2 min recovery over a few sessions, but that's not realistic in two weeks. Maybe by summer...

I made this one up!

I actually made it up for a kid, as at their age I think it's hard to do too many back to back 400s at 800 pace, so I chuck in the shorter ones. The rests are sometimes shorter than 2 mins after the 200s, eg after the first 200 only 90 secs.

My recommendation would initially be to just do the 200s and 300s at 800 speed, and gradually build up to the 400s. Maybe the first time just do 200-300-400-300-200 and don't go back up the ladder. After the first 400 you'll be hurting, and it'll be hard, but you're only going down in distances after that.

I think the short rests of 2-3 mins are important to teach you to run in difficulty.

I have no idea though how this correlates to age. And maybe you need more background aerobic work so your body recovers better.

NESCACalum wrote:

My favorite mid-distance workouts (back in the day) were split 500's (or 400's or 600's).

So you run a total of a lap and a half for a split 500.

Run 300m at mile pace

Jog 100m

Run 200m "fast"

Adjust to your taste, but I always liked how in one workout you do race-pace and speed work. Plus, by linking the pace work and the speed work I always felt like I was practiced in changing gears - which can come in handy.

Yeah I like that workout too. An 800 equivalent could be 250 @ 800 pace, 100 float, 150 sprint. Split 400, total 500 run. And the start of the first 300 is mid-race where you want to practise running in that fast but efficient stride.

Thanks to everyone for the ideas. I'll consider them all.

I did this workout today: warm up 10x100m, then 200 300 400 300 200 300 400 with 2 min recovery. I hit the times on everything except the 400s were 3 seconds too slow. I had lung burn afterwards. You're right about the 200. The second 200 felt almost like a recovery jog. It left me with enough to put out a decent effort on the last 300 and 400.

You could easily recover in 2 days if you weren't wasting your time on all that volume. Do far fewer reps, and faster. Otherwise you will race slow and then feel like you didn't even try.

And do some 600's.

Intensity promotes development better than frequency. A good workout every 4 days beats average workouts every 2 days, as long as the intensity focuses on the right thing. For the 800 it's top speed and speed endurance, not distance. 4 all-out 200's or 2 600's at goal pace or 3 400's at goal split pace would work better than 5k of intervals.

Yeah not surprising that the 400s are a couple of seconds slow. It's not a bad yardstick for how you're going, too.

Did you treat the last 400 like it was the 2nd lap of an 800 race?

Audax wrote:

You need to up the distance of the repeats as there is no real lactic acid buildup below 300 or so meters, nor are you allowing yourself to get use to keeping up that pace for longer than 300m. 4x400 at race pace or even a second underneath it, maybe a few 500s or 600s. You could also throw in a nice ladder from 100-200 (every ten meters).

Wouldn't there be lactic acid buildup for any distance if the rests are short enough, the distance is run fast enough or a combination of both?

Extremely frustrated wrote:

Wouldn't there be lactic acid buildup for any distance if the rests are short enough, the distance is run fast enough or a combination of both?

For 200's, not at all.

For other distances, dealing with a modest amount of lactate over time doesn't prepare for the way lactate hits in the 800. There you have to deal with extreme amounts for a short time.

Bad Wigins wrote:

For 200's, not at all.

For other distances, dealing with a modest amount of lactate over time doesn't prepare for the way lactate hits in the 800. There you have to deal with extreme amounts for a short time.

what do you mean? If I run 8x200m in 800m pace or faster I could easely get high lactate..

Extremely frustrated wrote:

what do you mean? If I run 8x200m in 800m pace or faster I could easely get high lactate..

200 meters mainly uses ATP directly, not glycolysis, so it doesn't produce much lactate. You have to run far enough to use glycolytic respiration, and then even farther to deprive that glycolysis of oxygen forcing it to produce lactate.

Some study I read recently but I don't know where it is said the switch from phosphogenic to glycolytic happens after about 20 to 30 seconds.

The 800 is also a situation where you can't clear the lactate and have to just run right through it. A set of intervals lets you clear the lactate.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Extremely frustrated wrote:

what do you mean? If I run 8x200m in 800m pace or faster I could easely get high lactate..

200 meters mainly uses ATP directly, not glycolysis, so it doesn't produce much lactate. You have to run far enough to use glycolytic respiration, and then even farther to deprive that glycolysis of oxygen forcing it to produce lactate.

Some study I read recently but I don't know where it is said the switch from phosphogenic to glycolytic happens after about 20 to 30 seconds.

The 800 is also a situation where you can't clear the lactate and have to just run right through it. A set of intervals lets you clear the lactate.

Any set? Why run intervals at all?

You mean the intervals have to be at least 30 seconds (so for example 300 or more) and the rests should be relatively short so the lactate hasn't cleared? I thought lactic acid took a good 10+ minutes to completely clear.

Hence by the way your recommendation of 2 x 600 at 800 race speed, but presumably with a good 10 minutes' rest in between. Or the 3 x 400s at 800 speed - with what rests? How about 2 x 2 x 400 at goal speed, with 2 mins rest between reps, and say 5 between sets?

Karma Police wrote:

Yeah not surprising that the 400s are a couple of seconds slow. It's not a bad yardstick for how you're going, too.

Did you treat the last 400 like it was the 2nd lap of an 800 race?

No. Should I?

It was under control for 300m and hard the last 100m. It hurt a lot and my lungs burned for about 20 minutes after, but it was not an all-out race level effort.

fisky wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

Yeah not surprising that the 400s are a couple of seconds slow. It's not a bad yardstick for how you're going, too.

Did you treat the last 400 like it was the 2nd lap of an 800 race?

No. Should I?

It was under control for 300m and hard the last 100m. It hurt a lot and my lungs burned for about 20 minutes after, but it was not an all-out race level effort.

Well, if you want to get used to front running a whole race you can. But the main thing is hitting the targets and getting used to running fast and relaxed under strain.

Bad Wigins wrote:

200 meters mainly uses ATP directly, not glycolysis, so it doesn't produce much lactate. You have to run far enough to use glycolytic respiration, and then even farther to deprive that glycolysis of oxygen forcing it to produce lactate.

Some study I read recently but I don't know where it is said the switch from phosphogenic to glycolytic happens after about 20 to 30 seconds.

The 800 is also a situation where you can't clear the lactate and have to just run right through it. A set of intervals lets you clear the lactate.

Doesn't produce much?!

I test my lactate after hard workouts, my lactate is sky high if I do a real hard 8x200m with a couple of minutes rest. Its no problem getting a high lactate with 200ms, no problem.

Also, I've been to training camps with several 1.46-1.48 runners, this isn't something unique for me.

Based on the suggestions in this thread, I ran this today.

Warm up. Drills. 10x100m building to faster than 800 race pace. 3x400m (10 min walk recovery)... the first 2 at 5 seconds faster than goal 800m pace and the last at 2 seconds faster. I had planned to do 4x400, but I had a slight quad twinge and decided to stop.

Should I repeat this next week and shoot for 4x400m (10min recovery)?

Purpose wrote:

Doesn't produce much?!

I test my lactate after hard workouts, my lactate is sky high if I do a real hard 8x200m with a couple of minutes rest.

ok, it produces some, but not as much as 600's or an 800 race, and that 2 minutes lets you clear enough that you can get through another 200 without losing form like a 400 hurdler.

Karma Police wrote:

You mean the intervals have to be at least 30 seconds (so for example 300 or more) and the rests should be relatively short so the lactate hasn't cleared? I thought lactic acid took a good 10+ minutes to completely clear.

Anything specific to improving lactate tolerance will work at improving lactate tolerance. But longer intervals are more specific to 400/800, in that lactate hits after the phosphogenic phase is completely spent, so only glycolytic respiration is available to power through it.

A 200 repeat is almost half acceleration. You don't get to accelerate when the lactate bomb hits in the 800. Not that high-volume 200's aren't useful, they're just less race-specific. Better for 1500 where you can still accelerate at the end.