Solomon suddenly world class and Rupp soloing 3.50 indoor miles - Come on Letsun, ask the questions!

why are you a track fan? Must be difficult for you.

When did Solomon start with Johnny Gray?

With a change of coaches and training environment, I'm not surprised he developed. I've thought he would become a 1:43 guy for years now. 1:42 was amazing but I actually thought kind of expected.

I think the really interesting question will be if his upside is now tapped out or close after that monster 800 in London, which was maybe a once-in-a-lifetime set-up, or if he wil continue to develop.

uhhh....what's the cube root of 1728???

I don't believe either are legit, but then again I don't believe there has ever been a sub 2:06 marathon run without EPO.

Here's what I'm talking about. He was 1:49 in high school, and his old 1:45 PR was from college in 2007. (Not sure why you call him a 1:45/1:46 guy when he ran 1:45 five years in a row.)

2012

1:42.82

London (OS)

09 AUG

2011

1:45.86

Los Angeles (OC), CA

21 MAY

2010

1:45.23

Des Moines, IA

25 JUN

2009

1:46.82

Santa Monica, CA

25 JUL

2008

1:45.71

Des Moines, IA

14 JUN

2007

1:45.69

Indianapolis, IN

24 JUN

2006

1:47.45

Sacramento, CA

10 JUN

2000

1:47.84

Palo Alto, CA

26 MAR

It's clear that some sort of doping is going on. However, results are results, and we'll turn a blind eye so long as we're entertained. Rupp, of course, is on so many 'grey' area drugs, it's rather a joke.

The thing is, how fast does someone have to run to get a PED accusation? Is there a cutoff? Or how much does someone have to improve? For Solomon, if he'd run only sub-1:44, would you still accuse him?

I'd really like to know. What do people consider suspicious improvement?

One of you said sub-2:06 marathon. So are all the 2:06 guys exempt? 2:07 guys? Or just anyone faster than Derek Clayton?

ifififi wrote:

So are all the 2:06 guys exempt? 2:07 guys? Or just anyone faster than Derek Clayton?

LOL.

they are doped to the gillies. I don't buy the thyroid thingy.

probably got help from the Epiopians. Alimarew is the biggest doper on the circuit. coming out of nowhere running 7:27 in Rieti (lots of trees though). last clean athlete was Cram.

A friend of mine after today's results was talking about doping and saying the it is more of an even playing field and the Americans now had a shot. He basically implied a lot of foreign athletes were using but they couldn't use as rampantly in the past.

I saw his point.

I then threw this at thim "If Solomon and Rupp weren't American, you'd be wondering what they were on."

And he agreed.

The point being this guy is so skeptical of athletes he is not fans of without any proof just looking at their results. But ones he is fans of he is not skeptical of.

So I had to laugh when I saw this thread.

We only tend to ask questions towards others, not our own guys.

There is nothing wrong with "asking questions" or even fans saying "so and so must be using because of X." That leads to discussion and debate which hopefully leads to a cleaner sport.

So I've restored this thread.

obviously true wrote:

It's clear that some sort of doping is going on. However, results are results, and we'll turn a blind eye so long as we're entertained.

There are the posts I don't like.

When people say "it's clear" that some sort of doping (or not doping for that matter) is going on just from some results.

So what everyone breaking a record is automatically a doper?

I don't think anything is clear. Anyone testing positive wouldn't surprise me these days, but that doesn't mean I still don't believe in the beauty of our sport so I'm not automatically jaded by records being broken.

I do think results can be used in arguments, but try and make a well-informed argument.

If rupp doped, then you would have to say that he has been doing so for over a decade and while a high schooler living under his parents roof. The guy was a 4:01 8:0x 13:37 highschooler folks! He ran 28:15 pretty much solo as a college freshmen. I believe he fell down in the race and had a massive negative split. He didnt suddenly get great, but he did recently graduate college.

His progression and consistency are perfect.

I'm not saying either are using anything.

I 100% believe that people are less likely to question one of their own that foreign athletes though.

To their credit, the Letsrun guys have been to the forefront of questioning PED use in sport and their attitude in directly questioning an athlete like Carmelita Jeter is what we need more of from journalists.

Here we have a skinny US distance guy running a mile time that myself and many others find difficult to believe. It needs to lead to questions. Hopefully those questions give us more evidence that Rupp is clean but they need to be asked.

silly gooses wrote:

If rupp doped, then you would have to say that he has been doing so for over a decade and while a high schooler living under his parents roof. The guy was a 4:01 8:0x 13:37 highschooler folks! He ran 28:15 pretty much solo as a college freshmen. I believe he fell down in the race and had a massive negative split. He didnt suddenly get great, but he did recently graduate college.

His progression and consistency are perfect.

I agreed with this as of yesterday. A 3:50 indoor mile changes everything.

P White wrote:

I 100% believe that people are less likely to question one of their own that foreign athletes though.

It's a matter of history. I am American but I trust British distance runners waayyyy more than U.S. sprinters.

P White wrote:

I'm not saying either are using anything.

I 100% believe that people are less likely to question one of their own that foreign athletes though.

To their credit, the Letsrun guys have been to the forefront of questioning PED use in sport and their attitude in directly questioning an athlete like Carmelita Jeter is what we need more of from journalists.

Here we have a skinny US distance guy running a mile time that myself and many others find difficult to believe. It needs to lead to questions. Hopefully those questions give us more evidence that Rupp is clean but they need to be asked.

Honestly, rupp was a 5k and 10k guy in high school and still managed a 4:01 mile. Its no secret that 3 or 4 years ago they got more serious about speed and he ran several 800s and mile races, including a 1:49 while still being 50000 and 10000 guy. Sure not many american milers can run 3:50, but how many could run 4:01 in high school while not being a miler?? How many high schoolers could run under 13:40? Just rupp.

vsdvsvv wrote:

silly gooses wrote:

If rupp doped, then you would have to say that he has been doing so for over a decade and while a high schooler living under his parents roof. The guy was a 4:01 8:0x 13:37 highschooler folks! He ran 28:15 pretty much solo as a college freshmen. I believe he fell down in the race and had a massive negative split. He didnt suddenly get great, but he did recently graduate college.

His progression and consistency are perfect.

I agreed with this as of yesterday. A 3:50 indoor mile changes everything.

I'm not sure it changes much for me. It is clear that Rupp has been working on his speed development a lot in the past 2 years. The 1500 equivalent is not out of question compared to his outdoor 1500 from last year. I agree with the poster who says that people from the Salazar grey areas with all the thyroid and everything, but the simple fact is that Rupp has pretty much NEVER been injured. Years of continual improvement have now reaped benefits. Believe me, I want to point the finger at Rupp and say he's dirty, but I just can't.

I have to look at it this way as well: I believe without a doubt that Alan Webb was clean when he ran 3:46 and 1:43 a few years ago. He improved 7 seconds from his high school 3:53 (which everyone thought and still thinks is clean)after a few years of subpar and inconsistent training... why couldn't a guy who ran 4:01 in high school run a 3:50 after several years of uninterrupted training with access to the best training tools and doctors in the world?

wejo wrote: The point being this guy is so skeptical of athletes he is not fans of without any proof just looking at their results. But ones he is fans of he is not skeptical of.

And this is a simple definition of "fanboys." Same as "our poo doesn't stink" types.

When Galen Rupp and Mo Farah took 2nd and 1st at the Olympics, Bekele's agent, Jos Hermens, said that "science won the race." Be that as it may, Rupp has always been amazing. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't dope. Not getting injured, also, does not necessarily indicate being clean. Remember, PEDS improve recovery, and would allow for superhuman workouts to elicit superhuman fitness (and subsequent performances).

I am more suspect of Duane Solomon. I'm virtually sold on Jeter's dirtiness.