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Tyrannical government
Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 2:43PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre

A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY TO THINK ABOUT.......December 29, 2012 marks the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection”. The slaughter began after the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. The Calvary began shooting, and managed to wipe out the entire camp. 200 of the 297 victims were women and children. About 40 members of the 7th Cavalry were killed, but over half of them were victims of fratricide from the Hotchkiss guns of their overzealous comrades-in-arms. Twenty members of the 7th Cavalry's death squad, were deemed “National Heroes” and were awarded the Medal of Honor for their acts of [cowardice] heroism.

We hear very little of Wounded Knee today. It is usually not mentioned in our history classes or books. What little that does exist about Wounded Knee is normally a sanitized “Official Government Explanation”. And there are several historically inaccurate depictions of the events leading up to the massacre, which appear in movie scripts and are not the least bit representative of the actual events that took place that day.

Wounded Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation attempts in United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of 297 people.

Before you jump on the emotionally charged bandwagon for gun-control, take a moment to reflect on the real purpose of the Second Amendment, the right of the people to take up arms in defense of themselves, their families, and property in the face of invading armies or an oppressive government. The argument that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target shooting is asinine. When the United States Constitution was drafted, “hunting” was an everyday chore carried out by men and women to put meat on the table each night, and “target shooting” was an unheard of concept. Musket balls were a precious commodity and were certainly not wasted on “target shooting”. The Second Amendment was written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes in Europe, and it refers to the right of American citizens to be armed for defensive purposes, should such tyranny arise in the United States.

As time goes forward, the average citizen in the United States continually loses little chunks of personal freedom or “liberty”. Far too many times, unjust gun control bills were passed and signed into law under the guise of “for your safety” or “for protection”. The Patriot Act signed into law by G.W. Bush, was expanded and continues under Barack Obama. It is just one of many examples of American citizens being stripped of their rights and privacy for “safety”. Now, the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is on the table, and will, most likely be attacked to facilitate the path for the removal of our firearms, all in the name of “our safety”.

Before any American citizen blindly accepts whatever new firearms legislation that is about to be doled out, they should stop and think about something for just one minute-
Evil does exist in our world. It always has and always will. Throughout history evil people have committed evil acts. In the Bible one of the first stories is that of Cain killing Abel. We cannot legislate “evil” into extinction. Good people will abide by the law, and the criminal element will always find a way around it.

Evil exists all around us, but looking back at the historical record of the past 200 years, across the globe, where is “evil” and “malevolence” most often found?In the hands of those with the power, the governments. That greatest human tragedies on record and the largest loss of innocent human life can be attributed to governments. Who do the governments always target? “Scapegoats” and “enemies” within their own borders…but only after they have been disarmed to the point where they are no longer a threat. Ask any Native American, and they will tell you it was inferior technology and lack of arms that contributed to their demise. Ask any Armenian why it was so easy for the Turks to exterminate millions of them, and they will answer “We were disarmed before it happened”. Ask any Jew what Hitler’s first step prior to the mass murders of the Holocaust was- confiscation of firearms from the people.

Wounded Knee is the prime example of why the Second Amendment exists, and why we should vehemently resist any attempts to infringe on our Rights to Bear Arms. Without the Second Amendment we will be totally stripped of any ability to defend ourselves and our families.
rights advocate
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 2:54PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
marijuologist
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 2:55PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The people who want to violate gun rights WANT an abusive, tyrannical government. They care nothing about children or the safety of innocent people. Instead, they are offended by individual freedom and want to empower the government to have absolute power to subjugate us.
You are next !!!
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 3:09PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Look at the 70-year old government occupation Ancient Palestine. Presently the government has jailed 11 million refugees in concentation camps and gulags in Ancient Palestine. You are next !!!
joho
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 3:28PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Technical question. Were the natives living on the reservation considered citizens of the US?
Precious Roy
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 4:30PM - in reply to joho Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Let's get real about this argument. The constitution calls for the right to bear arms in order to maintain a well regulated militia. Do these folks look like members of a well regulated militia:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/25/1173770/-What-IS-a-well-regulated-militia

Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Paper No. 29 suggested that "well regulated" meant placing the discipline, training and direction of the militia under the control of the national authority.

This idea that the right to bear arms is somehow a grant to individual citizens the right to violently overthrow the government should they deem the government to be tyranical is contradicted by the fact that the constitution deems such conduct as treason.

What this argument is really about is right wing nut jobs trying to intimidate people who disagree with their political view points. The arguments about tyrany and the 2nd amendment are really just a fancy way of saying: "I am right about (insert political issue) because I have a gun and will use it against you if you oppose me."

Also, given the history of government attrocities in the US against US citizens, where are all the great patriots with their weapons? Where were the patriots when blacks were being beaten and sprayed with fire hoses for peacefully marching against segregation? Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today? Where were the patriots when the Japanese were interned during WWII? Where were the patriots when NY authorities beat and murdered prisoners during the prison uprising in Attica?

Lastly, the idea of armed resistance against a tyranical government is largely a fantasy that is nothing like the reality. Civil wars and guerilla wars are generally long, bloody and purposeless affairs that either result in stalemate or replacing one despot with another. Non-violent movements, by contrast, have an excellent track record of acheiving real change (See India, Eastern Block countries, Myanmar's recent thaw, East Timor, Tunisia, Egypt).
My Name Is Judge
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 8:42PM - in reply to Precious Roy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Precious Roy wrote:

Let's get real about this argument. The constitution calls for the right to bear arms in order to maintain a well regulated militia. Do these folks look like members of a well regulated militia:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/25/1173770/-What-IS-a-well-regulated-militia

Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Paper No. 29 suggested that "well regulated" meant placing the discipline, training and direction of the militia under the control of the national authority.

This idea that the right to bear arms is somehow a grant to individual citizens the right to violently overthrow the government should they deem the government to be tyranical is contradicted by the fact that the constitution deems such conduct as treason.

What this argument is really about is right wing nut jobs trying to intimidate people who disagree with their political view points. The arguments about tyrany and the 2nd amendment are really just a fancy way of saying: "I am right about (insert political issue) because I have a gun and will use it against you if you oppose me."

Also, given the history of government attrocities in the US against US citizens, where are all the great patriots with their weapons? Where were the patriots when blacks were being beaten and sprayed with fire hoses for peacefully marching against segregation? Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today? Where were the patriots when the Japanese were interned during WWII? Where were the patriots when NY authorities beat and murdered prisoners during the prison uprising in Attica?

Lastly, the idea of armed resistance against a tyranical government is largely a fantasy that is nothing like the reality. Civil wars and guerilla wars are generally long, bloody and purposeless affairs that either result in stalemate or replacing one despot with another. Non-violent movements, by contrast, have an excellent track record of acheiving real change (See India, Eastern Block countries, Myanmar's recent thaw, East Timor, Tunisia, Egypt).


Hear, hear!
CAS
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 8:48PM - in reply to My Name Is Judge Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
i agree. Let there be no blood shed at Verizon Wireless. Let it be written. Let it be done.
Should be asked
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 8:59PM - in reply to marijuologist Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

marijuologist wrote:

The people who want to violate gun rights WANT an abusive, tyrannical government. They care nothing about children or the safety of innocent people. Instead, they are offended by individual freedom and want to empower the government to have absolute power to subjugate us.


Are you just trolling? Or do you really believe that you have the capacity to speak for the "real" motivations of a large, diverse group of millions of people?
at the beach
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 9:27PM - in reply to Precious Roy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Precious Roy wrote:
....Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today?.....


We do not all remain on the reservation today. My great grandmother lost her parents on the Trail of Tears. She subsequently married a Methodist deacon, who was a Civil War veteran and gun owner in Oklahoma. Their daughter married a WWI veteran and gun owner from Oklahoma who moved them to Los Angeles at the turn of the century. Their son was a WWII veteran and gun owner who was my father. I am a Vietnam veteran and gun owner who now lives by the beach in Southern California. Our Constitutional right to bear arms has allowed patriots and Native Americans like my forbears the freedom to pursue their dreams wherever they led. You don't know what the f... you are talking about.
Should be noted
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 9:32PM - in reply to at the beach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

at the beach wrote:


Precious Roy wrote:
....Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today?.....


We do not all remain on the reservation today. My great grandmother lost her parents on the Trail of Tears. She subsequently married a Methodist deacon, who was a Civil War veteran and gun owner in Oklahoma. Their daughter married a WWI veteran and gun owner from Oklahoma who moved them to Los Angeles at the turn of the century. Their son was a WWII veteran and gun owner who was my father. I am a Vietnam veteran and gun owner who now lives by the beach in Southern California. Our Constitutional right to bear arms has allowed patriots and Native Americans like my forbears the freedom to pursue their dreams wherever they led. You don't know what the f... you are talking about.


Congratulations on your personal family history. But the point that PR was making had nothing to do with whether or not some Native Americans are living off the reservation or not. Your post is therefore idiotically irrelevant.
knower of things
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 9:34PM - in reply to joho Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
No, not at the time. It wasn't until 1924 that Native Americans became citizens of the United States



joho wrote:

Technical question. Were the natives living on the reservation considered citizens of the US?
asfhlsdhifuh
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 9:35PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
you fail to understand
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 9:57PM - in reply to Tyrannical government Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What you fail to understand is that many of us are far more worried by the idea of a 'volunteer' gun freak hanging around our kids' school than by any concern that our government is going to decide to shoot us. Paranoids like yourselves insist that your 'rights' are being eroded left right and center, but the fact is that we're free to do pretty much any reasonable thing we choose.

The government does not worry me. You do. I'll take my chances on not being rounded up and massacred by the cavalry.
You SUK!
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 10:05PM - in reply to Should be noted Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Are you bragging about your participation in the genocide of Asian people ? You should be ashamed of yourself!
Another view
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/15/2013 10:09PM - in reply to at the beach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Some will be too stupid to get your point. Sadly one was a fellow Texan who should be stripped of being called a "man".


at the beach wrote:


Precious Roy wrote:
....Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today?.....


We do not all remain on the reservation today. My great grandmother lost her parents on the Trail of Tears. She subsequently married a Methodist deacon, who was a Civil War veteran and gun owner in Oklahoma. Their daughter married a WWI veteran and gun owner from Oklahoma who moved them to Los Angeles at the turn of the century. Their son was a WWII veteran and gun owner who was my father. I am a Vietnam veteran and gun owner who now lives by the beach in Southern California. Our Constitutional right to bear arms has allowed patriots and Native Americans like my forbears the freedom to pursue their dreams wherever they led. You don't know what the f... you are talking about.
Should be noted
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/16/2013 10:10AM - in reply to You SUK! Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

You SUK! wrote:

Are you bragging about your participation in the genocide of Asian people ?


No.



You SUK! wrote:

You should be ashamed of yourself!


No again. (see first answer above)




Next time, try debating the words the other person actually said, not the words that you make up inside your own head and then ascribe to the other person. It makes for a much more realistic debate.
another issue
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/16/2013 10:26AM - in reply to Precious Roy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Precious Roy wrote:

Let's get real about this argument. The constitution calls for the right to bear arms in order to maintain a well regulated militia. Do these folks look like members of a well regulated militia:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/25/1173770/-What-IS-a-well-regulated-militia

Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Paper No. 29 suggested that "well regulated" meant placing the discipline, training and direction of the militia under the control of the national authority.

This idea that the right to bear arms is somehow a grant to individual citizens the right to violently overthrow the government should they deem the government to be tyranical is contradicted by the fact that the constitution deems such conduct as treason.

What this argument is really about is right wing nut jobs trying to intimidate people who disagree with their political view points. The arguments about tyrany and the 2nd amendment are really just a fancy way of saying: "I am right about (insert political issue) because I have a gun and will use it against you if you oppose me."

Also, given the history of government attrocities in the US against US citizens, where are all the great patriots with their weapons? Where were the patriots when blacks were being beaten and sprayed with fire hoses for peacefully marching against segregation? Where were the patriots with their weapons when Native Americans were sent on the trail of tears into reservations where they remain today? Where were the patriots when the Japanese were interned during WWII? Where were the patriots when NY authorities beat and murdered prisoners during the prison uprising in Attica?

Lastly, the idea of armed resistance against a tyranical government is largely a fantasy that is nothing like the reality. Civil wars and guerilla wars are generally long, bloody and purposeless affairs that either result in stalemate or replacing one despot with another. Non-violent movements, by contrast, have an excellent track record of acheiving real change (See India, Eastern Block countries, Myanmar's recent thaw, East Timor, Tunisia, Egypt).




If you place a militia under the control of the national authority, how can that militia then be used against the national authority? The 2nd amendment states the militia as 'being necessary to the security of a free State'. STATE not federal.
Then that simply moves the debate to the National Guard, but the Supreme Court has ruled that the second amendment covers private ownership of guns.
Citizen Runner
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/16/2013 10:34AM - in reply to Precious Roy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Precious Roy wrote:

. . .

Alexander Hamilton's Federalist Paper No. 29 suggested that "well regulated" meant placing the discipline, training and direction of the militia under the control of the national authority.

. . .

The problem with this argument is that the adoption of the Bill of Rights was driven by the Anti Federalists. If you want to put the second amendment in historical context, referencing someone like Jefferson would make a much more compelling argument than quoting Hamilton.
crazy world
RE: Wounded Knee: what the government can do when it disarms its citizens 1/16/2013 10:34AM - in reply to another issue Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's all a moot issue. Once they pass the mental illness portion of the package, then we can take away the guns of 99 % of the tyranny, militia, the world is ending Auntie Emm! types, and we are good to hook.
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