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high school coach
New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 2:45PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ohio high school sports have been based on the number of students a school has 9-11 to determine divisions and then based on the number of schools which offer that sports the OHSAA determine the Division. Cross country and track have 3 divisions.

But a new rule has been established for next year where both the boys and girls enrollments will be added together to determine the division for both team. This could move a team from one division to another just because one sex has a lot more than the other sex. Such as, a school has 100 more boys than girls and after adding the two sexes together the boy’s team could be moved up a division based on the girl’s larger enrollment.

Do you think this is fair?

Let Commissioner Daniel Ross - dross@ohsaa.org - 4080 Roselea Place, Columbus, Ohio 43214 (614) 267-2502 - www.ohsaa.org know your opinion!!
sorry it works out bad for you
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 3:11PM - in reply to high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't think it makes much of a competitive difference.

I would guess the main reason is that many schools that are right on the line have great difficulty if one team is in one division and the other team is in a separate division. The school then has to go to two separate regional meets that splits up the coaching staff, fans, and causes more expense in getting the athletes there.

With boys and girls in the same division at each school, this problem is taken care of.

In the last few years Divison II and Division III have been fairly equal in competitiveness going down about the first 40 places at the state meet. There would be virtually no difference between these two divisions.

There would be a huge difference in the jump to DI but only a handfull of teams would be affected.

My personal opinion is that I would rather have my team always at the same location for boys and girls so I didn't have to choose if I had a son and daughter running the same year. That trumps a handful of teams having to compete up a division.

30 years ago when I ran, my school was 4 or 5 boys over and my soph year we jumped to AA from A It was a huge difference between those divisions at the time and I would have placed far higher and my team would have went to the state meet if we were in the lower division. Actually our team would have been near the top in A at the state meet and we didn't even make it in AA because of the competition. I understand it can really make a difference but I don't like to see the teams split up.
luv2run
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 4:52PM - in reply to high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I did not realize that any states counted the sexes separately for the purposes of classification.
high school coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 4:53PM - in reply to sorry it works out bad for you Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
By the way AA is now Division II…there is a large difference on times in the top 40 from DII to DI....

How is it fair for a team with 100 fewer girls than boys be forced to move up a division or another school to move down… If you coach you know there is a big difference for each division to move on as a team…It is a shame a school doesn’t have two coaches where one can go with the one sex if they are at different sites…This new rule will hurt a lot of athletes and teams!!

Last year’s Sate CC meet
40 place
Boys
DI time 16:02
DII time 16:36
D III time 16:37
Girls
D I time 18:56
DII – 19:36
DIII – 19:36

100 place
Boys
DI – 16:38
DII – 17:28
DIII – 17:38
Girls
DI – 19:46
DII – 20:31
DIII - 21:05

Team results
Total time for teams (top 5 runners)
Boys
DI 1st place 1:19:12 – 16th place 1:23:35
DII 1st place 1:21:59 – 16th place 1:27:54
DIII 1st place 1:22:26 – 16th place – 1:28:09
Girls
DI 1st place 1:32:02 – 16th place 1:39:16
DII 1st place 1:34:43 – 16th place 1:42:09
DIII 1st place 1:35:52 – 16th place 1:44:39
high school coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 5:02PM - in reply to luv2run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ohio has done the for years....there are a number of schools which are in different division based on the sport...

Ohio does division based on the number for each sex and then divide the divisons based on the number of schools which offer the sport...

Why would anyone combined the sexs as they compete against one sex it is not co-ed!!
Another Option
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 5:56PM - in reply to high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ohio coaches whine far too much about this kind of thing. No one is going to be hurt by this. Every year many Div I schools compete against other Div I schools that are 2-3 times larger. Where are your tears for them?

The majority of athletes don't advance to the state championship. Too many forget that the purpose of scholastic athletics isn't to crown a state champion. This rule change benefits far more athletes, coaches, schools, and families than it potentially hinders from advancing to the next round of a state tournament.

Time to re-evaluate your priorities if you're really upset about this...Indiana doesn't even use divisions. Call child services!
buckeye nutter
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 6:09PM - in reply to Another Option Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If they do it for cross country why doesn’t Ohio just do this for every sport?! The reason they did this is some schools only have one cc coach. How can a school not have at least two coaches with one being at least an assistant in charge of the other team (boys or girls) why is it that people think cc is one sport for boys and girls. To my knowledge no one runs it as a co-ed sport it is 2 different sports! Cross Country should also be a separate sport in college why do they share scholarships with track… no only sport does this…If you are a true runner you would stand up for your sport!!
buckeye nutter
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:19PM - in reply to Another Option Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In the Central District last year you had to run the following times to advance to the Regional Championships – There seems to be a large difference based on which Division you are in…
Boys
Division I 17:32
Division II 18:32
Division III 18:54
Girls
Division I 20:40
Division II 21:21
Division III 22:17
watchout
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:42PM - in reply to high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

high school coach wrote:

Ohio high school sports have been based on the number of students a school has 9-11 to determine divisions and then based on the number of schools which offer that sports the OHSAA determine the Division. Cross country and track have 3 divisions.

But a new rule has been established for next year where both the boys and girls enrollments will be added together to determine the division for both team. This could move a team from one division to another just because one sex has a lot more than the other sex. Such as, a school has 100 more boys than girls and after adding the two sexes together the boy’s team could be moved up a division based on the girl’s larger enrollment.

Do you think this is fair?

Let Commissioner Daniel Ross - dross@ohsaa.org - 4080 Roselea Place, Columbus, Ohio 43214 (614) 267-2502 - http://www.ohsaa.org know your opinion!!


Yes, it's fair. You're still talking about schools of roughly similar enrollment, and it simplifies the process by considering both genders for divisional placement. That would be especially true if enrollment determined league affiliation.
high school coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:47PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What do you think if a school has 100 plus more of one sex than the other, resulting in the other sex being moved up a division – how is that fair to the sex which has a lot fewer athletes than ever other tem competing in that division?!
old track coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:50PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Why don't they do this for all sports then.....Not just cross country!!! It makes no sense to do it for just one sports...the cross country athletes are getting screwed!!
watchout
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:51PM - in reply to old track coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

old track coach wrote:

Why don't they do this for all sports then.....Not just cross country!!! It makes no sense to do it for just one sports...the cross country athletes are getting screwed!!


They should do it for all sports.
watchout
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 7:54PM - in reply to high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

high school coach wrote:

What do you think if a school has 100 plus more of one sex than the other, resulting in the other sex being moved up a division – how is that fair to the sex which has a lot fewer athletes than ever other tem competing in that division?!


If school A has 375 boys and 450 girls this year, and school B has 450 boys and 375 girls this year, is one school really at a significant advantage over the other on either side?

You're not going to find many (if any) disparities greater than that outside of all-boys or all-girls schools, which hopefully will be adjusted by doubling their enrollment figures when deciding what classification to place them in.
old track coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 8:14PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There are a number of schools which will be affected.... there are a number of schools which will be moved up a division becasue they have more of one sex than other....how is this fair to the team forced to move up a division becasue they have more of one sex at their school... Wait until a school moves down and take away runners and teams from the lower division because they have fewer of atother sex...This makes no sense to do...

If a school has only one coach for both the boys and girls team this is another problem...they are not one sport...
watchout
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 8:33PM - in reply to old track coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

old track coach wrote:

There are a number of schools which will be affected.... there are a number of schools which will be moved up a division becasue they have more of one sex than other....how is this fair to the team forced to move up a division becasue they have more of one sex at their school... Wait until a school moves down and take away runners and teams from the lower division because they have fewer of atother sex...This makes no sense to do...

If a school has only one coach for both the boys and girls team this is another problem...they are not one sport...


There are pretty much always large numbers of schools on the border of classifications in any state, I would imagine.

Whether you're in the group of "largest of Division 2/3" or "Smallest in Division 1/2", are you at a significant advantage/disadvantage over the similar sized schools in either case? Is the school of 1200 students (650/550) bound to be notably better/worse than the school of 1150 students (550/600) on either side?
watchout
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 8:45PM - in reply to luv2run Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

luv2run wrote:

I did not realize that any states counted the sexes separately for the purposes of classification.


Connecticut does as well. I think there may be a couple others, that they are far in the minority. Just doesn't make sense, particularly if state series meets are not all held in the same place on the same day for all classifications in the area (what if a team only has one coach? and why force schools to send buses to multiple places when they can all go to the same one? doesn't make a huge difference for small states in the Northeast, but for a state as big as Ohio it might start to make a difference).
Coaches News Network
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 9:10PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This entire thread makes me ashamed to say that I'm from Ohio. Talk about pissing and moaning about something that basically amounts to a hang nail. You folks complaining about this are most likely the same people who are for having separate championships for private and public schools.

If, as a result of this rule, your athletes don't make it to the state meet, it's actually because THEY DIDN'T RUN FAST ENOUGH. You're laboring under false assumption that life is always supposed to be "fair". Create your own competitive advantages by training more and complaining less.

Grow a set.
old track coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 9:23PM - in reply to Coaches News Network Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I got a set you can see if you want...just treat all of the sports the same...why should it be different for CC??
old track coach
RE: New rules for Divisions in Ohio HS CC 1/12/2013 9:26PM - in reply to Coaches News Network Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Do you coach a team which could be affcted by this??

By the way I am not in favor of seperating private and public schools Championshiops....
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