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TCB is an idiot
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:23PM - in reply to One_More_Round Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You are a liberal if you think he can't break 12 for 100m.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:35PM - in reply to Wannabe Goldbug Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just saw the vid.

I'm not saying there wasn't one, but I didn't see any gun--when did the clock start?

I didn't see any FS sensors in the blocks. False starts are ubiquitous in races like this.

That having been said, let's assume this was perfectly legit. 2 things come to mind:

1) the heavyweight guy looked really good! I'd like more info on the exact conditions...gun? wind? FS? Better view of the start? He was a lot smaller than I expected for someone described as a "heavyweight". If completely legit, that is absolutely amazing...however, I'm telling you here and now, it is a suspect time. Seriously.

2) The fact that Farah broke 13 is excellent, and is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID HE WOULD RUN:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4460299&page=2

Hey Gallagher, you stupid F-tard! With a bit of block training and dry conditions, there is no way that either Farah or Rupp would break 12.50, and they would be VERY lucky to get anywhere near that, especially Rupp. Farah is quicker over 100m, of that I have no doubt.

I especially love these comments from the other thread:

from Helluva Runner, in response to a comment I made - "you are an idiot of the highest degree. What's that put Farah at? 13 flat? You've got to be joking. It doesn't matter if you are Bekele, you will never run the last lap of a 10k at the same pace as your 100 PR. If that were true I should have gone pro so I could run a 45 second last 400 in a 10k."

from joecrunner: "I can run 12.5 out of the blocks, there is no way Rupp and Farah can't run faster than that...didn't rupp do standing start 75 meter sprints in 8.4 seconds (11.2 100m pace)?"

from Northwest Apprentice: "This is so ridiculous. I could run sub 12 (hand timed) from standing start when I was in 2:00 800 shape. Even thought they're 10K specialists, I'm assuming Galen and Mo could run 1:50 in their sleep and probably a hell of a lot faster than 12.0 for 100 meters. I don't care if they're doing distance training, they're top tier elite runners for christssake!"

I realize that I'm talking out both ends in this comment--first claiming to have been correct about Farah, then claiming that the race was suspect because of the 11.53 I realize that I can't have it both ways.

My best feeling is that it wasn't an honest 11.53, and if I see the details from an honest source I will find the weakness. Therefore, Farah was slower than even the 12.98, which would still fit my prediction, as he hasn't had any block practice.

One last note, rain doesn't really matter to hacks in the 100m--in fact, sometimes it makes them run faster, believe it or not.
ventolin^3
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:46PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:He was a lot smaller than I expected for someone described as a "heavyweight"


err...

you think the 6'6, 235+ superheavyweight gold medalist is small ???

he's 23y & when he turns pro & fills out even more to 245/250, within 2 - 3y will be challenging for the title with a good chance of winning it
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:52PM - in reply to ventolin^3 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hey Vent, do you have any better video links?

Gold, silver, and bronze all had very decent leans at the tape, especially the big man, and Farah!

F'ing A, I love this type of thing. Even if the times are bogus, it gives one an idea of relative speeds. Look at the other times in the race! Was everybody else 75 years old?

And yes, I know that 11.53 is not a particularly fast 100m...but it IS for a guy his size, regardless of how young he is. In fact, it is unbelievable, considering that he doesn't train for the 100m. EITHER there is something anomalous about the race, or he is massively juiced, or both.

I would give him an honest 12.10-12.20 in a real race, which would still be smokingly fast for a guy his size.

Anybody have any more details about the race? And a better vid?
high school kids run that fast
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:56PM - in reply to ddffv Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ddffv wrote:

Why is there no way the heavyweight can run 11.50? That's not a fast time


Yep. Random high school football players who don't take track seriously run faster than that. If some running back who sleeps on the high jump pit during track practice can run in the low 11s, I don't know why a professional athlete who relies on explosive ability could not run 11.5.
joecrunner
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 12:59PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Really? Pasting quotes to boost your own ego? Regardless, I seriously doubt Mo can only run 12.9 seconds for an all out 100m. This was just for fun.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:03PM - in reply to high school kids run that fast Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oh God, here we go again.

I will grant that it is not impossible for a guy of his size and training to run 11.53, just that it is not immediately believable.

RB's have a history of training in the sprints, whether they sleep on the HJ mat or not (BTW, ALL real sprinters have slept on the HJ mat at some point). They are selected, in part, for their 40-yd time.

While a boxer might rely somewhat on explosive ability, they don't train in short sprints as do RB's.

That, combined with the fact that this guy goes something like 240, is why it is initially unbelievable that he ran an 11.53

So what about this guy's prospects as a FB, if he just packs on another 30 lbs? That's a heck of a lot of inertia!
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:07PM - in reply to joecrunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

joecrunner wrote:

Really? Pasting quotes to boost your own ego? Regardless, I seriously doubt Mo can only run 12.9 seconds for an all out 100m. This was just for fun.


LOL. No, my ego doesn't need any boosts. I pasted YOUR comments to show how ridiculous they were.

As was your last one, as well. If there is one thing that we can take away from the vid, it is that places 1, 2, and 3 were actually trying hard.

What you still are apparently unable to grasp is that a guy like Farah just CANNOT go "hard". For him, that WAS "hard". He absolutely lacks the force envelope required to go any "harder". If he DID have it, he wouldn't be the double Olympic champ at 5,000 and 10,000m
ddffv
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:07PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Oh God, here we go again.

I will grant that it is not impossible for a guy of his size and training to run 11.53, just that it is not immediately believable.

RB's have a history of training in the sprints, whether they sleep on the HJ mat or not (BTW, ALL real sprinters have slept on the HJ mat at some point). They are selected, in part, for their 40-yd time.

While a boxer might rely somewhat on explosive ability, they don't train in short sprints as do RB's.

That, combined with the fact that this guy goes something like 240, is why it is initially unbelievable that he ran an 11.53

So what about this guy's prospects as a FB, if he just packs on another 30 lbs? That's a heck of a lot of inertia!



Inertia is nothing to worry about if he adds muscle and not fat. I don't know why you think his weight is such a problem. Usain Bolt is over 200 lbs and can run 9.5.
The Next Surprise
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:08PM - in reply to joecrunner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

joecrunner wrote:

Really? Pasting quotes to boost your own ego? Regardless, I seriously doubt Mo can only run 12.9 seconds for an all out 100m. This was just for fun.


He looked to be running pretty hard to me.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:09PM - in reply to ddffv Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
That's around 40 lbs less than this guy, and Bolt's 200 lbs are absolutely optimized to sprinting, unlike this guy's, which are concerned with, among other things, lateral movement, and absorbing punishment.

Plus, I was talking about inertia as a FB, if he bulked up even more, which would be a good thing.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:17PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You can actually freeze the vid just as Joshua's torso crosses the line.

Nice lean!

But what's really impressive is how far Farah is behind. That 1.5 seconds is absolutely huge.

Now think about what some posters on other threads have said, that Farah could run 11.00 or something like that. Imagine Farah being able to finish 5m AHEAD of Joshua, rather than 12-13m behind, like he did. rotflmao

Any of you geniuses still believe that Rudisha could run 10.26?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
trollism
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:22PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Any of you geniuses still believe that Rudisha could run 10.26?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm not saying that he would, but even if he did, you would just say it didn't happen in the face of all evidence.

I'm not sure you've actually said it yet, but do you actually accept this as a legit 11.5 for Joshua?
The Next Surprise
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:27PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:

You can actually freeze the vid just as Joshua's torso crosses the line.

Nice lean!

But what's really impressive is how far Farah is behind. That 1.5 seconds is absolutely huge.

Now think about what some posters on other threads have said, that Farah could run 11.00 or something like that. Imagine Farah being able to finish 5m AHEAD of Joshua, rather than 12-13m behind, like he did. rotflmao

Any of you geniuses still believe that Rudisha could run 10.26?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I agree completely with Sprintgeezer for once. I think people tend to over-estimate speed of long distance runners by saying "oh they can do 52 second 400m at end of race herp derp derp". The thing is, these guys are operating at a very fine line. These guys endurance base is just so amazing they can run almost their maximum sprint speed at the end of the race. Keeping in mind Farah's lack of block work and acceleration, I would even go as far as to say a 13 flat is a fairly good run by Farah. Geezer, where do distance runners loose the most ground to a sprinter?

Also, a lot of people saying "I ran a 12.0 second 100m handtimed with a standing start surely these guys could be 11.xx sprinters." The thing is, you guys are probably doing mostly interval work which strengthens acceleration and Max speed while Farah and them do more endurance work as well as a balanced and probably longer distance more race pace oriented speed session. You guys are probably faster, perhaps much more so, than K Bekele, Farah, D. Komen, and maybe even A. Chebii over 100m. Of course, these guys endurance is unbelieveable and it can extend much better to longer distances than the average joe.

I really think we should trust Sprint Geezer when it comes to sprints, although I disagree with many wild doping theories of his, even though it is likely that most athletes operate at a somewhat grey level with substances that aren't banned or illegal but borderline. Geezer, where do distance runners loose the most ground to pro sprinters: At the start(acceleration) or towards the end? I can see it working but ways too be honest.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:32PM - in reply to trollism Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I accept that it COULD BE "legit", but it is very suspect.

I would need to see the gun, I would need to see the start better to judge any FS possibility, I would need to see a wind gauge reading, and most of all I would need to know that the race was conducted by actual track officials, right from the starter to the timer. For instance, was it just an electronic timer that stopped as his left hand crossed the line? I find it difficult to believe that they set up an honest FAT system for a joke race like this.

So, I accept that it could be "legit", only because I believe it possible for a 240-pounder to actually put up a 11.53 100m.

DO I accept it AS legit? Absolutely not, not without those things I mentioned.

Here's why: I have had similarly unbelievable results due to timing errors and unrecorded wind--and, those results were always thrown out and replaced by substitute hand times.

Like I said, if it's legit, it's absolutely great!
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:45PM - in reply to The Next Surprise Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Where do they lose most to pro sprinters?

In the 100m, everywhere--start, early acceleration, middle acceleration, transition, max speed, last 20m.

Overall, if I had to pick one area, I don't know that I could. Everything is just so different. Maybe early or middle acceleration. Although Joshua is by no means a sprinter, look at the lead even he gets on Farah by the 30m mark.

Also, in my experience, usually when people are injured they stay away from starts and acceleration, because those are the race phases that produce the greatest loading on connective tissues, due to large peak forces, and the duration in time of those peaks. Sprinters have developed the capability to sustain those conditions, whereas distance guys have not--and even sprinters break down under those conditions.

Yes, I know that top sprint form at speed is totally different than distance runner top speed form, and that distance runners cannot achieve top sprint speed form (again, Jeilan came very close), but I don't think the gap at speed is as great as it is on acceleration.

What would have been really fun would have been if the timing had been excellent in this race, and if good 10m splits had been provided! That would provide a better answer to your question than I am capable of.

And a final note, to all distance people whose egos may have been bruised by this result: the number of elite sprinters who could actually FINISH a 10,000m race without ever stopping to walk or VERY slowly jog is exceedingly small. Distance runners and sprinters are 2 completely different animals, both adapted to their competitive environments, and maladapted to environments with different pressures.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 1:55PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Farah looks to actually get a very good start, relative to other competitors, and relative to Joshua as well. Not surprising, given his lack of body mass.

It looks to be the later acceleration, transition, and maintenance phases on which he loses most to Joshua. Of course, you were asking for a comparison with a pro, who would be WAY ahead of Joshua by the 30m mark.

Looking again at the vid, I'm not seeing any FS judge, and I'm not even seeing any starter on the normal position on the infield. Anybody have more specific details?

My best guess is still that it was more like a 12.0 by Joshua and a 13.5 by Farah, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. For the record, I have been in a race against a 220-lb guy who went 11.34 FAT, but he was trained as a decathlete and regularly ran the 100m
Ex wrestler
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 2:02PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:

My best guess is still that it was more like a 12.0 by Joshua and a 13.5 by Farah, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. For the record, I have been in a race against a 220-lb guy who went 11.34 FAT, but he was trained as a decathlete and regularly ran the 100m


Joshua started boxing when he was 18. He's clearly a very athletic guy. What sports did he do when was younger? Perhaps he got some sprinting experience then.
Sprintgeezer
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 2:15PM - in reply to Ex wrestler Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Let me also say that a 12.00 FAT by a guy of Joshua's size and training would be exceptional, absolutely exceptional.

He's still not as fast as Dwight Howard, though!
body master
RE: Mo Farah only 12.9 100m time in BBC Superstars Show 12/30/2012 3:42PM - in reply to Sprintgeezer Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Sprintgeezer wrote:

LOL. No, my ego doesn't need any boosts. I pasted YOUR comments to show how ridiculous they were.

As was your last one, as well. If there is one thing that we can take away from the vid, it is that places 1, 2, and 3 were actually trying hard.

What you still are apparently unable to grasp is that a guy like Farah just CANNOT go "hard". For him, that WAS "hard". He absolutely lacks the force envelope required to go any "harder". If he DID have it, he wouldn't be the double Olympic champ at 5,000 and 10,000m


Absolutely correct. What people fail to realize is that Farah was giving EVERYTHING he had. How fast do you think he should look giving his complete lack of muscle mass and fast twitch fiber? He was really going at it with his arms, and you could visibly see that he was just going no where despite all his efforts.

I seriously doubt he can run under 50 seconds. No f*ing way. He's too slow, too lean. Muscle is REQUIRED to not only sustain SPEED (not endurance) but also to PRODUCE speed. Farah cannot do either.
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