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pantiesoff
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 1:04PM - in reply to You deal with it Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

You deal with it wrote:


Running on Empathy wrote:

I find it entertaining that there are people here who still don't get the fact that Manzano's silver was a complete fluke. I'm sorry folks, but he just isn't that good. Deal with it.


Haha! Poor, pathetic people. Leo holds an Olympic silver medal in his hands. Obviously he is that good.

And ask any athlete this question...would you rather have an Olympic medal or a higher year end ranking established by some random track and field magazine.

NO BRAINER!!!




+1
someone had to do it
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 1:34PM - in reply to pantiesoff Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
+2
Foreigner
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 4:42PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You cant compare post olympics races where Manzano was just collecting cash and ending his season, with the trials and the olympics


rojo wrote:


Fluffy wrote:

1. Kiprop is just better. Kiplagat tripped Kiprop in Doha. Kiprop clearly would have won that without the stumble. Kiprop destroyed Kiplagat at Pre in the mile, and ran the first clean 3:28 in years. Kiprop was clearly better pre-injury.

2. Manzano beat Centro all 3 times they raced (Indoor US Champs, Olympic Trials, and Olympics). There's just no way you could argue Centro had a better year.

3. Even if you think Kiplagat should be ranked higher than Kiprop, he didn't medal at all in both Championships he was in. With that fact, you can't justify putting Kiplagat as #1.


Look, one can easily make the argument Manzano should be ranked ahead of Centro but you can't just ignore stats in doing so.

Manzano did not beat Centro all 3 times the raced.

They raced 7 times in the same race this year and Centro led the year 4-3 as he beat Manzano 4 straight times after the Olympics.

Lausanne: Centro 3rd in 3:31.96, to Manzano 10th in 3:34.08.

Birmingham - Centro 8th in 3:37.94 to Manzano 11th in 3:42.20.

Brussels - Centro 4th in 3:32.47. Manzano 11th in 3:34.85.

5th Avenue - Centro 1st 3:52.4. Manzano 3rd in 3:53.1

Manzano was a total disaster after the Olympics save for 5th Avenue. If this was tennis, it would be like 3 straight flameouts in the first round.

I think at some level it's good these rankings exist as it gives the rest of the season meaning.

As for when our rankings are coming out, I haven't ever done them at the end of the year as it's impossible to please everyone.
zdfgxdfgxdf
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 5:51PM - in reply to You deal with it Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
lol@ this list
runner85
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 5:52PM - in reply to Foreigner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1.) Kiprop
2.) Kiplagat
3.) Makhloufi (want to rank higher, but his entire season wasn't as good, still think he is the best)
4.)Centro (very consistent)
5.) Manzano
6.)Gebremehdin
7.)Chepseba
8)Ndiku
9)Iguider
10)Nick Willis
ukathleticscoach
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 6:40PM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
See as these are the people who once ranked Aouita No1 over 800m I would just ignore it
jjjjjjj
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 6:52PM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
they're well known for placing championships well above top marks and overall season performances in doing their end of season rankings, so the fact that they have makhloufi so low indicates their belief that he was doping, and they fault manzano on times and inconsistency despite the fact that they had always stressed those very big meets that he peaks for. Kiprop did get tripped at Doha, destroyed Kiplagat at Pre, ran the first 3:28 in years, and was injured in the Olympics, whereas a healthy Kiplagat continued to perform poorly at World/Olympic championships. Even Brojos wouldn't have picked anyone but Kiprop had he been healthy in the Olympic final.
coach d
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 7:02PM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ukathleticscoach wrote:

See as these are the people who once ranked Aouita No1 over 800m I would just ignore it


Yeah, and it's been that way for a long time. They are good at covering the sport, but their "experts" always seem to be biased and don't know much. Don't think many people put much stock in their rankings any more.
subfive
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 7:11PM - in reply to Running on Empathy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Running on Empathy wrote:

I find it entertaining that there are people here who still don't get the fact that Manzano's silver was a complete fluke. I'm sorry folks, but he just isn't that good. Deal with it.


That is a shockingly ridiculous comment! It's senseless to claim that an Oly silver is a fluke. It's always better than bronze and 4th etc.
T&FN is blind
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 7:27PM - in reply to Fluffy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:

T&FN is blind and Fluffy,

You guys both say Kiprop is way better than Kiplagat. Maybe talent wise but not results wise in 2012.


That depends on whether you agree that Brussels should count double, when if anything it should count less because it's an Olympic year.

Kiprop went into that race leading Kiplagat 14-8 in DL points. Kiprop was winning the big meets and losing Brussels doesn't change that.

The same thing happened to Rudisha. Gets beat one lousy time, and loses on points because the final counts double.
It's ridiculous.


Kiplagat beat Kiprop at the Kenyan Trials and Olympics and actually never lost to him all year at 1,500 - only at the mile. I think you'd have to put him at #1 over Kiprop as a result.


They ducked each other all year. While Kiprop was healthy, they were 1-1 in races where winning mattered, meaning non-trials races. Kiprop's mile win was much more convincing than Kiplagat's .15 second margin.
haha
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 8:15PM - in reply to T&FN is blind Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Lagat ranked behind Koech who tripped the former in the Olympic final. List is shit.
correcter of English
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 8:51PM - in reply to pantiesoff Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
there is no need for year end rankings in Olympic years. The olympic final places are the year end rankings. Every single one of those athletes would have rather got a stress fracture and missed every race but the olympics and ots and got a gold in the olys than won every single other race but not the olys.
RRRR
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 8:54PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"I think the Manzano vs. Centro debate is similar. Clearly, in my mind, Centro is the man. What a racer and talent. If only he hadn't gotten hurt."

Centro is a talent and one hell of a racer to be sure, but I have to disagree with this.

Champions show up when they are supposed to, healthy and ready for rounds during an Olympic year. The ability to make it to the race at or near 100% is a huge accomplishment and speaks to the athlete's ability to train right and perform when it counts both on and off the track. Enough of this "if only he hadn't gotten hurt" nonsense. If you bang your knee on a table heading into an olympic year, tough luck, you aren't on the scoreboard this time around.

Manzano was # 2 on the biggest stage in the world, when it mattered the most. No one was peaking for the 5th Avenue mile this year. Pay the man some respect, he deserves to be higher on the list.
The Bible of the Sport
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/29/2012 11:38PM - in reply to RRRR Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My thoughts, based in part on being a T&FN subscriber for over 30 years. Some of these items (in no logical order; just writing them down in the order I think of them) have been mentioned previously by others, but there's no harm in repeating:

1. T&FN doesn't include indoor marks for rankings for events below 3000 (and not for 3000 either, I guess, since I don't think they do 3000m rankings anymore), so Manzano's win over Centro at USATF Indoor doesn't count.

2. They don't include road marks, so 5th Avenue doesn't count.

3. Makhloufi's 1500 win in Oslo was a B race over a very weak field, so it means next to nothing.

4. Makhloufi had a fairly limited 1500 campaign; just 8 finals and only 2 Diamond League meets (in which he placed 5th [Monaco] and 8th [Brussels]).

5. Brussels was the Diamond League Final, so probably had the 2nd most weight after the Olympics. Kiplagat and Gebre went 1-2.

6. Sometimes no one dominates an event, and so no one really "deserves" to be ranked #1, but someone has to be!

7. Sometimes when the medalists in the biggest race of the year, in this case the Olympics, have otherwise such mediocre seasons, it doesn't carry as much weight when it comes time to figure out the end-of-year rankings.

8. Manzano had a truly lousy season other than the U.S. Champs (which doesn't mean much on a global level, other than the fact that he beat Centro) and, of course, the Games. He competed in 5 Diamond League meets, and his placings were 12th, 11th, 10th, 11th and 11th.

9. I can see RoJo's point about Makhloufi possibly deserving the 3rd spot ahead of Gebremedhin, but the latter ran 6 Diamond League meets, and had solid placings of 7th (Doha), 2nd (Pre), 3rd (Oslo), 2nd (Lausanne), 1st (Birmingham) and 2nd (Brussels). He ran okay at the Games (6th), so that body of work was probably enough to give him the nod over Makhloufi.

10. As others mentioned, time is the least important factor.
Olympics
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/30/2012 12:11AM - in reply to The Bible of the Sport Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Every professional athlete in our sport wants an Olympic medal. That is the ultimate goal. This was an Olympic year. The Olympics were the time to be ready, to be RACING your best. That doesn't mean being fastest. That means getting through rounds, staying healthy, and being race savvy in the final. The three medalists did it better than everyone else in the world in the 1500. That should be given it's proper respect. Centro is good, but no medal and no guarantee he ever will. Kiprop is amazing, but no medal this year. Kiplagat, no medal. The Patriots were 18-0 but lost the Super Bowl in 2007 and the Giants were the best team in the NFL. You have to show up to the big show, so take nothing away from what Makhloufi, Manzano, and Iguider accomplished.
Whahhhwensweyuwo
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/30/2012 2:48PM - in reply to Olympics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I still can't figure out that OG final. My thought is this:

Kiprop was hurt
Kiplagat can't handle rounds and was tired. Same for Gebremedhin.
TM improved his speed significantly this year and showed no effect of rounds. Going from way out put SK and Gebre into trouble.
Centro and Manzano stuck to their race plans and, when both are fit, Manzano has the edge in a slightly slower race.
Les
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 12/30/2012 11:31PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
T&FN rankings are SEASONAL rankings based on honors won and head to head competitions. Marks, unless you run the marathon with its few races, don't really factor. Centro is ranked higher because he did better in Diamond Leagues, consistently beating Manzano after the Olympics. Manzano won silver in the biggest meet of the year, but the rest of his results were spotty to disastrous. Just like last year with Simpson, who won the World Championships but was otherwise terrible. Uceny took the top spot because of her better SEASONAL results despite falling in the World Championships.
10,000 Years from today
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 1/11/2013 2:08AM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
10,000 Years from today people will read the Jenny Barringer Simpson won the GOLD MEDAL in the 1500 at 2012 IAAf Daegu World Championships. They won't read jack about TAFN ;-)
wtfunny
RE: Discussion: Track & Field News' 2012 World 1,500 Rankings: Kiplagat #1, Makhloufi #4, Centro #5, Manzano #9 1/11/2013 4:44AM - in reply to 10,000 Years from today Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

10,000 Years from today wrote:

10,000 Years from today people will read the Jenny Barringer Simpson won the GOLD MEDAL in the 1500 at 2012 IAAf Daegu World Championships. They won't read jack about TAFN ;-)


Ha, true :). They prolly won't read LRC either.
vSwKmM
pJhAtKlR 1/14/2013 6:47PM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
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