Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |
pinoyathletics
Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 7:10PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://pinoyathletics.com/2012/12/27/asian-athletes-limited-by-genes-or-nurture/

A debate on the prospects of Asian athletes in American sports passes without mention of Yao Ming, the Shanghai Sharks’s 7-6, 265-pound center who recently led China to an 83-82 upset over the U.S. His prospects as the likely top pick of the 2002 NBA draft have been trumpeted by no lesser authorities than Michael Jordan and Bill Walton.
Bad Wigins
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 7:26PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The most impressive Asian athletes are the Sepak Takraw players.
coach d
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:15PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ryota Yamagata

Does that name mean anything to you? He ran 10.07 in London, which is faster than any caucasian American has ever run. And for people who don't know much about Japanese sprinting, Yamagata isn't the only one:

Koji Ito (10.00)
Shingo Suetsugu (WC bronze medalist at 200)
Nobuharu Asahara (10.08)

In 2012, Yamagata was tied for the #37 best time. Japan's best marathoner tied for #70.

Many on this site would want you to believe that everything in track and field in Japan revolves about road racing and marathons, but it's not the case.
pinoyathletics
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:25PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ito 10.00
Asahara ran 10.02
Suetsugu 10.03
Eriguchi 10.07
Yamagata 10.07

http://www.adriansprints.com/2012/11/yoshihide-kiryu-1019-1021-1034-video.html

As a matter of fact who is the fastest ever Caucasian American Tom Green 10.10?
Duldo Time
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:25PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
pinoyathletics
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:26PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Suetsugu won the bronze medal at the world champs in the 200m one year.

Ito stopped the clock at 9.996 and then it got rounded to 10.00. Was very close to being the first asian to break 10s.
coach d
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:34PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm not aware of Tom Green running any legitimate 10.10. IAAF has him running 10.31, I believe.

Now there ARE no USA racial records, but I believe the fastest caucasian is 10.14 by Kevin Little.
coach d
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:37PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My point is that the Japanese have the genetics to run about as fast as anyone else. And their system for sprinting seems to be performing at the world class level better than their system for marathoning.
pinoyathletics
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 8:41PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
sooner or later one of them will become the first asian to crack 10.00s. Why are the Chinese with 1.2 Billion people not able to do it yet?? they have already had a women crack 11 seconds.

John Woods must be among the American Caucasian leaders with 100m 10.16 +1.9 Fort Collins (USA) 21.04.2007

Tom Green 10.10 was wind aided it had a following wind of +3.6 m/s
pinoyathletics
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 9:03PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In that case why are they stuck in the 10.0-10.1 range?
coach d
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 9:11PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My sense is that the Chinese culture and system are different. If you were to take Liu Xiang at his peak and put him in a flat 60m with someone like Terrence Trammell, Liu would have gotten killed. But the hurdles event and Liu, just like the Chinese divers, are a perfect fit for the Chinese system, which is practice, practice, practice. Even though Liu wasn't as fast, flawless technique (from practice, practice) made up for it.

What is clear is that the Japanese in particular have the explosive power necessary to compete at a high level. And it's not just sprinting. Japanese ski jumpers have won Olympic medals, and they have done fairly well in Olympic weightlifting.

The Chinese have an advantage in that they have a more diverse culture, and there are some that are physically larger than most other asians. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine a bunch of people in Manchuria with the physical dimensions of Usain Bolt. But whether straight sprinting fits well with the Chinese psyche and culture is perhaps the issue.
pinoyathletics
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 9:20PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So you are saying the chinese are better adapted at technical events rather than strength/power events? what about the Chinese Weight lifters?
asdfsdf
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 9:31PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

pinoyathletics wrote:

So you are saying the chinese are better adapted at technical events rather than strength/power events? what about the Chinese Weight lifters?


That is not what he said at all. He said that they are better at technical events because of the rigid and lifelong training system they go through. He never said "adaptation." He said "practice."
jsks
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 9:39PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

pinoyathletics wrote:

So you are saying the chinese are better adapted at technical events rather than strength/power events? what about the Chinese Weight lifters?



Olympic weight lifting is very, very technical. It's not as much about strength and power as you are thinking.
Adam R.
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 11:36PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

coach d wrote:

My point is that the Japanese have the genetics to run about as fast as anyone else. And their system for sprinting seems to be performing at the world class level better than their system for marathoning.


I agree that Japanese sprinting is much better than people think (don't forget World Juniors 200 m gold medalist Iizuka), but you're incorrect about it performing better than their marathoning.

Yamagata's 100 m time of 10.07 was 0.44 seconds off Bolt's year-leading 9.63. That is 4.57% off.

Fujiwara's marathon time of 2:07:48 was 3:33 off Mutai's year-leading 2:04:15, only 2.86% off.

Nakamoto also made 6th in the Olympic marathon this year, while Yamagata did not make the final.

Their sprinting is good, but not quite up to the level of their marathoning yet despite some success.
LDOPA
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/26/2012 11:44PM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Goku was an alien raised by Asians and he kicked some serious butt so I'm gonna go with genes.
what about americans?
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/27/2012 8:30AM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Some people have raised some interesting points about Japanese and Chinese athletes. I have some questions, just to inspire some debate:

1. What about Americans of Asian descent? I myself am one, and ran track in high school and college. Asian Americans only constitute 5% of the population, of course, so that tips the balance in one way. However, I went to a high school school with a strong running culture, in an area with a relatively large Asian population (~25%), and at least anecdotally found it rare to find top athletes who were of Asian descent. Some may point to cultural differences still, and they may have a fair point, but of my friends who were Asian, most were very into sports of all forms (tennis, track, football, basketball, etc), so at least in my urban area, Asian teens were certainly into sports frequently.

2. There is a relatively large amount of data indicating that, on average, Asian adults are shorter than Caucasian adults. I wonder if this might be the *only* physical bias that predisposes Asians away from certain sports (e.g. football). In other words, is there any evidence to suggest that if two men were both 6-1, 180 lbs, but of different ethnicities, one would statistically tend to have more raw strength (by some objective measure, such as max squat weight)? I doubt any studies have been done, but it would be interesting to see people speculate on this.
LDOPA
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/27/2012 9:01AM - in reply to what about americans? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
In my high school, a lot of Asian students would join track at the start of the winter season to "get in shape for tennis," stop showing up after a few weeks, and then not make the tennis team.
Some Insight
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/27/2012 9:14AM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

pinoyathletics wrote:

sooner or later one of them will become the first asian to crack 10.00s. Why are the Chinese with 1.2 Billion people not able to do it yet?? they have already had a women crack 11 seconds.



Women's doping used to be easier and much more effective than mens doping. You just pump them up with steroids, Testosterone etc to become more like a men. See German Democratic republic, Sovjet Union etc.

If you compare the Japanese with the Chinese records, you will realize that the men are much better in Japan and the women are much better in China when it comes to sprinting. See above, this is not a coincidence. Japanese culture is a culture based on honesty, trust and loyalty. Cheating does not exist.
Some Insight
RE: Asian athletes limited by genes or nurture 12/27/2012 9:19AM - in reply to pinoyathletics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Gotta be careful when talking about genetics because of all the PC these days.

However, it is statistically proven that on average, Asians have a longer upper body and shorter legs than whites or black people. That leaves them at a disadvantage when it comes to running (generally). Obviously, there are some exceptions, like Liu Xiang. In hurdles, a good proportion between legs and upper body is even more important.

So why are the Japanese so good at Marathoning, despite their shorter legs? My (unproven) theory is that the longer the distance, the less of importance the longer legs are, because of the slower pace you can make up for it with higher stride frequency.

It probably also helps that the Japanese have a great Marathoning culture.
Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 |