What is up with Chad Hall?

Chad wasn't that talented to begin with, he simply trained super hard in a very conductive environment with a family that was well acquainted to training runners.

He also won in a very weak field in a weak time(15:20) and one that didn't include the strongest runners exactly.

Forys, Murdock, and Tebo have hardly ever been heard from again, and those are 3 of the top 5. Yes, the field did include Mead, Centro, Mecheso, Lowe, and Riley, but the latter 3 finished in higher(worse) places at Footlocker than they would end up finishing in at NCAA Cross Country, which shows they didn't really bloom until their later years.

Mead was the only one of those "big" names up there even competing with the lead pack, and he, while being successful in College, hasn't been exactly a dominant force.

Really, the top guys of 2006 pale in comparison to 2000 when Hall finished third, and the top three were Ritz, Webb, and then Hall. All of them are much, much more talented then the rest of the guys that made up those top guys in the 2006 Footlocker field.

I think we can also agree that Chad had a very, very good race at Footlocker 2006 and was actually lucky to win it, and the course suited him nicely. Given all these conditions, I don't think it's a huge surprise we haven't seen much improvement.

If he had run with that 2000 Footlocker field he woulda been creamed-he might just been able to squeak in the top 10, but he just isn't all that talented in end, and that's really it.

This one is easy. When Ryan wasn't happy in college he didn't switch to a really crappy school called UC Riverside.

Forys had some weak years, but he ran pretty well his last couple seasons at Michigan, and I definitely wouldn't say he disappeared. Anyway, look at those guys' track times in high school and it's hard to say Hall beat a weak field.

1 Matthew Centrowitz 07 Arnold, MD 8:41.55# 8:10.3'

2 Craig Forys 07 Howell, NJ 8:44.53 8:09.9'

3 Elliott Heath 07 Winona, MN 8:46.12 8:14.2'

4 Evan Jager 07 Algonquin, IL 8:47.59 8:14.8'

5 Hassan Mead 07 Minneapolis, MN 8:51.23 8:17.7'

6 Paul Springer 07 Kennett Square, PA 8:52.77 8:18.1'

7 Dan Jackson 07 Ann Arbor, MI 8:55.60 8:18.5'

8 Mark Amirault 07 Walpole, MA 8:56.84 8:21.7'

9 Mike Fout 08 LaPorte, IN 8:58.79 8:22.6'

10 Thomas Gruenewald 07 Manlius, NY 8:58.98 8:21.2'

lol best runner in the country in 2006 is "not that talented." That's f'ing rich.

The answer is that it's really hard to make it. Even if you're super talented, Footlocker champ, etc. you still have to get out there every damn day and do the work. Not only that, you have to do exceptional work and stay injury-free, all the while keeping your desire to train and compete. Even for a top 10 Footlocker guy, the odds of becoming one of the top collegiates are stacked against you. Then the odds of a top collegiate becoming one of the top pro runners are even more slim. By the time a guy like Ryan Hall sees real success, 99.9% of the guys he's ever run against, even the ones more talented than him, are no where to be seen.

I wouldn't say Hall was the best runner in the country in 2006, perhaps maybe the one of the top Cross Country runner of the year during that period of time, but surely not the best in High School.

As I stated before, Chad was not even talented. His times of 8:58 for 2 miles and 4:11 for one mile paled to guys like Centro, Murdock(who had minimal success in College and beyond), and even Mead.

He had the advantage of training at high altitude with his big bro who was really becoming quite successful at that point in time.

Hall did mega-miles, much higher than anyone else was doing and peaked extremely specifically just for Footlocker and really had a strong mental determination for just that one race. The field was relatively weak that year for Cross Country, and although quite a few guys went up to put on spectacular 2 mile times later in the track season, I don't think these guys 2 mile success was translating over to the XC course.

All in all, I really don't think Chad Hall is all that great. While I commend him for his excellent showings on the XC course during his senior year, I think inevitably the transfer out of such a conductive environment into a more fair playing field was going to be detrimental to Hall's performance, and obviously he was not going to be or is going to be a successful Collegiate or Professional runner.

I just think talent like Ryan Hall's is so unusual that even his brother isn't likely to be at the same level.

Have there ever been brothers where one is as much as an outlier as Hall and the other brother is just as good? The Bekele brothers are fairly close, but Kenenisa is plainly better than Tariku. Maybe the Torres brothers?

To be in the top tiny percentage of runners requires a combination of genetics, training, extended periods without injury, etc. etc. Even brothers aren't likely to be identical in all of the tiny things that make a difference.

How is it that for Ryan Hall sucking in the Olympics, most of the blame went on his coaching but here most of you are ignoring it. Chad didn't have a coach that is good at having his athletes improve in college. Look at the times of the runners at Riverside and you can see that they recruit talent that doesn't develop.

Currently he's on the 49ers' practice squad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Hall

What exactly is a conductive environment? WTF? Is this something in an Electrodynamics Laboratory?

Altitude, brother who was pro(Ryan Hall), dad who knew a lot about coaching and running, extremely high mileage and handwork

Um, ever hear of Cain and Abel? Chad and Ryan are being tested.

Chad did 90 miles a week in high school, and 70 at the end of the season. Is that mega-mileage? I dunno. Chad indeed was very talented. He ran faster as a HS sophomore than Ryan and except for Ryan's Maine mile, faster as a junior too. Chad also has better speed. Chad ran 49 in HS for the 400. Ryan is just more competitive. Chad is good-natured but Ryan is extremely fierce and determined as an athlete.

ioncapacitor wrote:

Chad did 90 miles a week in high school, and 70 at the end of the season. Is that mega-mileage? I dunno. Chad indeed was very talented. He ran faster as a HS sophomore than Ryan and except for Ryan's Maine mile, faster as a junior too. Chad also has better speed. Chad ran 49 in HS for the 400. Ryan is just more competitive. Chad is good-natured but Ryan is extremely fierce and determined as an athlete.

Nope, it's the coaching.

Yes, Chad has had poor coaching from Irv who focused on all-out intervals and the weight-room rather than aerobic strength, but now Chad is training with Ryan so we'll see if that helps.

It's just the percentages wrote:

I just think talent like Ryan Hall's is so unusual that even his brother isn't likely to be at the same level.

Have there ever been brothers where one is as much as an outlier as Hall and the other brother is just as good? The Bekele brothers are fairly close, but Kenenisa is plainly better than Tariku. Maybe the Torres brothers?

To be in the top tiny percentage of runners requires a combination of genetics, training, extended periods without injury, etc. etc. Even brothers aren't likely to be identical in all of the tiny things that make a difference.

Shigeru So and Takeshi So were twin brothers from Japan that ran in the late 70s/early 80s. They were Japan's best marathoners after Seko. Shigeru ran a 2:09 and Takeshi was fourth in the LA Olympics. Pretty evenly matched.

I really think that the capability is there for both of the halls and that it really comes down to the coaching for both of them. At the end of the day both of the halls are quitters though. Switching schools, dropping coaches, and worst of all in my book, dropping out of the Olympic marathon. I'm not longer a fan of the Halls. Next better American runner please.

GReat white hope my ass.

EXtreamP90X wrote:

I really think that the capability is there for both of the halls and that it really comes down to the coaching for both of them. At the end of the day both of the halls are quitters though. Switching schools, dropping coaches, and worst of all in my book, dropping out of the Olympic marathon. I'm not longer a fan of the Halls. Next better American runner please.

Literally every American distance runner except Rupp has switched coaches at some point. And every single one of them has droped out of a race, and would make the same choice again if it meant injury.