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Fun with Phonics
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 11:46AM - in reply to Shoebacca Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The voting was in June.
26mi235
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 12:08PM - in reply to Shoebacca Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The silver is irrelevant, as the award was voted on before she even competed in the Trials. So, either we should be clairvoyant or the should change the whole process, making the award after the year is over, or they did exactly the right thing. She set the collegiate record (taking out aided altitude marks) was undefeated there, and won all of her races except the last 100m Final, where she got second to an athlete that is better than all of those faced by BB. However, she does not sing as well....


Shoebacca wrote:


QTPi wrote:

to those saying duncan was the right choice:
what would a high jumper have to do to win the award?
i don't think it's right to give such a strong preference to athletes who compete in a variety of similar events...


This is the most insightful quote. She won 100% of her competitions that senior year and then got the silver. Would they have considered her any more strongly if she had won the gold? Or would she have had to place in a sprint event to get consideration? I can understand rewarding multi-event athletes, but it's a big snub to a field athlete at the top of her game.
old coach man
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 12:24PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:
I thik the bigger question is, "Should post-collegiate competition be considered?"

That's a real tough one. I see why they don't do it as this is a collegiate award. But since track is known on most college campuses as one of the "Olympic sports" it's also easy to justify.



It should remain as a collegiate award. The ultimate goal in our sport is to make it to the World Championships or Olympics and put yourself in a position to earn a medal.

If you make the Olympic team are you better than someone who did not? Of course not. Some college senior who runs 11.81 and gets an auto qualifier from her banana republic is not better than Kimberlyn Duncan who placed 4th in the 200 at the US trials. The 3 that beat her all qualified for the final in the Olympics. Also her dope of a teammate Hackett placed 8th in the Olympic finals. Duncan did not lose to Hackett all year.
worst poster
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 12:53PM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Could we at least agree on her name.

It appears to be "Kimberlyn" not "Kimberly" based on the majority of media reports and tweets I have seen.

LRC is misstating it as Kimberly

In fact, her twitter own page says "Kimberlyn".

So there you go.
running is better
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 2:40PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:

....or Olympic births.


is this when parents give birth to an olympian? or a birth at the olympics?

i grew up in the deep deep south and went to public school and can write better than you yale kids.
Hank Moody
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 4:58PM - in reply to lack of diversity Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What white girl?
prefan
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 5:27PM - in reply to Hank Moody Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Well, if you are going to consider "non-collegiate action", then your winner has to be Suzy Favor Hamilton. She is definitely no longer a collegian and she has seen the most action over the last year. Case closed.
eafwgasdf
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 5:46PM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

LetsRun.com wrote:
What do you think? Should non-collegiate action be considered?


In this case it certainly should be. I don't understand how a high-jumper could have had a more perfect season. What would she have to do to get the award? Set a national record? Start throwing shotput? Debug navigational errors in the trajectory of the Hubble telescope? Poke zombie Hitler in the eye with an elephant tusk?

And in general, if "points scored" is going to be the metric for winning the award, then it's always going to be slanted towards the sprinters since they can more easily find four closely-related events. That doesn't seem fair to me. And even if it were, I still value a virtuoso performance in a single field higher than than I value excellence in several.
TrackCoach
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 5:48PM - in reply to Shoebacca Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
They got it right, you absolutely have to consider the event and the quality of the performances relative to the competitors. Duncan is with out a doubt one of top-3 greatest NCAA sprinters ever in NCAA competition, whereas, I am not sure if Garrett would be in the top-10.
body master
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 6:54PM - in reply to eafwgasdf Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

eafwgasdf wrote:
In this case it certainly should be. I don't understand how a high-jumper could have had a more perfect season. What would she have to do to get the award? Set a national record? Start throwing shotput? Debug navigational errors in the trajectory of the Hubble telescope? Poke zombie Hitler in the eye with an elephant tusk?

And in general, if "points scored" is going to be the metric for winning the award, then it's always going to be slanted towards the sprinters since they can more easily find four closely-related events. That doesn't seem fair to me. And even if it were, I still value a virtuoso performance in a single field higher than than I value excellence in several.



That's absolutely moronic. For example, i would vote the bowerman for a guy that got 3rd in the 100, 200, and 400 over a guy who won one event at NCAA's and was undefeated. I dont even give a flying f*** if he won the olympics.

Versatility means you're a better athlete PLAIN AND SIMPLE. You dedicated A THIRD of your effort to each event and you still performed admirably compared to the clown who spent their entire life on one event and won. If you can't figure that out you have a horrible sense of value.

This isn't high school where you can just go out there and win the 200 because you are a great 100m runner. No event is an afterthought in college.

Kimberlyn won that award because she's a better athlete plain and simple. The high jump girl COULDN'T win the award because she LIMITED herself by only doing high jump. Win high jump and become an all american in long jump or something and THAT is impressive. I don't care if she had a perfect season, a perfect season of ONE event can't beat a near perfect season of two, three events.
DuckFan13
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 7:31PM - in reply to body master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The Heisman is given before the football season is even over. They don't even consider the championships outcome. Considering the Olympics in the Bowerman would be like the Heisman committee considering the first week of the next NFL season.

The athletes that compete in multiple events and score more points for their team have far more chance of winning. Barrett is amazing, but when was the last time you saw a member of a losing team in the running for a Heisman?
just askin
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 7:50PM - in reply to DuckFan13 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So, sprinters are always going to win the award because of points they can score on the relays which duplicate their individual events?
more info
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/20/2012 8:11PM - in reply to just askin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hardly. Only 1 of 4 men's winners has been a sprinter (and he also did LJ). 2 of 4 women's winners have been sprinters, and Queen Harrison did sprint hurdles. Even counting Queen as a sprinter, you have 4 of 8 winners who are sprinters between both genders.

For a country that's as speed-focused as the US, I'd say that's actually really good balance.

I often wonder if it's possible for a thrower to win. Just so hard to be top-notch in more than one throwing event.
jakethefake
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/21/2012 3:24PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A defensive player has won the Heisman, Charles Woodson. He occasionally stepped in as a WR or a kick returner, but he was definitely a defensive player who won the award for his defensive play. It is true that no solely defensive player has won the Heisman.

That was nit picky, and I agree with your post in spirit.
donkiekongie
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/21/2012 7:36PM - in reply to LetsRun.com Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Their reasoning makes sense.

But its dumb because it means unless you double you basically have no chance of winning.

It's also bad because the best athlete didnt win. The highjumper was clearly better. The award doesnt mean much when the best person doesnt get it.
body master
RE: So an undefeated collegiate woman who won an Olympic silver medal isn't the NCAA track AOY - a non Olympian is? 12/22/2012 2:12PM - in reply to donkiekongie Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

donkiekongie wrote:

Their reasoning makes sense.

But its dumb because it means unless you double you basically have no chance of winning.

It's also bad because the best athlete didnt win. The highjumper was clearly better. The award doesnt mean much when the best person doesnt get it.



Uh reread my post. How can you claim you're the BEST athlete when you only do one event? By this logic, they should make Bowerman awards separately for field and track events.

You also contradict yourself your own phrase "best person." The "best person" is the MVP. A high jumper who has only done one event can never be the MVP because they don't score enough.
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