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Portland HS
Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:23AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Why does anyone consider this guy good? Nelson runs 2:14 and the other 2 drop out. It is an absolute embarrassment. Please stop allowing this guy to destroy marathoners. Nike needs a real marathon coach not someone that is a 5k-10k coach that trains them to run a marathon. The model is broken.
willy k
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:45AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1. I think the marathon is harder to coach it than it sounds, because unlike 5k/10k you don't have tons of high schoolers / college runners to test the water, you only get two chances per year to see if what you did worked.

2. There are literally no good marathon coaches in the US. Salazar apparently sucks, Mahon apparently sucks, now we've confirmed Schumacher apparently sucks too. And people wonder why Hall coaches himself.
Trollist
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:47AM - in reply to willy k Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

willy k wrote:

2. There are literally no good marathon coaches in the US.



Brad Hudson and the Hansons.
come clean
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:48AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't think you are putting as much blame on the athletes that is deserved. Shumacker has had a rough go, but maybe these athletes are just not cut out for the marathon.
Hard to say
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:57AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This may or may not be true. The thing you have to consider for this instance is that Nelson and the other guys (and women) who trained for New York peaked a month ago. I did that one time and if I had it to do all over again I wouldn't have tried. I had a 2:26 PR and missed a race due to illness and tried to "re-peak" 5 weeks later and managed a 2:36 (started a little conservative and then crashed and burned in the last 3 miles). It was too difficult to go through an entire training cycle, peak physically and mentally, then try to hold that for a month. I would put any fall performances by those who prepped for NY into a category all their own. Has anyone who didn't get to run NY popped a really good race? Vail may have done the best that we've seen, but a lot of others have struggled.
Flagstaff Dropout
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:59AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Why not call out all the failed coaches?

Lemoncello dropped that falls on Coach Greg. Jesse Cherry dropped and that one goes to ZAP.

I agree that Hansons and Hudsons both have a better grasp of the marathon than most American coaches. Although I like Mahon as well.
Missouri proud
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 5:19AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This was the dilemma that Kara faced when trying to get the hell away from Alberto.

Alberto is a mad scientist. And Jerry seems like a better option but there is not a "Nike Coach" that has had much success in the marathon.

Cook and Rowland are middle distance coaches. Alberto and Jerry are track distance coaches.

The marathon is being ignored by Nike which is ridiculous with the amount of money that they have.
troof be told
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 5:23AM - in reply to Missouri proud Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Alberto finally got it right with Ritz's 2:07. Maybe it'll take as long for Jerry as it did for him.
Missouri proud
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 5:29AM - in reply to troof be told Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Is that really what you think happened? For me, I think that supreme talent won out. After so many poor results for AlSal I will wait for about a half dozen quality performances strung together before I am a believer.
troof be told
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 6:01AM - in reply to Missouri proud Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Missouri proud wrote:

Is that really what you think happened? For me, I think that supreme talent won out. After so many poor results for AlSal I will wait for about a half dozen quality performances strung together before I am a believer.


Alberto has had a few decent results and now one good result. He's not a great marathon coach but a lot of the perception of him as being worse than he is is due to unrealistic expectations among American fans of their marathoners' abilities and hubris on the part of the American athletes themselves about the same abilities.
1 time doesnt make an expert
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 7:45AM - in reply to Flagstaff Dropout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Other than Ritz 2008 Olympic Marathon what serious success has Hudson had in coaching the marathon?

Didn't most all of his runners underperformed or DNF'ed in marathons in 2012.

Hansons have 2 big success stories but over 14 yrs and 70+ athletes.

I think Hudson and the Hansons showed they CAN get it right depending on the situation and person, but I wouldn't say they have the event figured out.

Zap, McMillan, Hudson, Hansons, Jerry, Alberto, TUSAM all occassionally have success but more often miss than succeed. The Hudson probably have the best batting average of the lot but then they specialize in the event. But their success rate isn't exactly that impressive, compared to Canova, and Rosa and a few others.
rupp-certified saladbar
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 10:33AM - in reply to troof be told Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

troof be told wrote:

Alberto finally got it right with Ritz's 2:07. Maybe it'll take as long for Jerry as it did for him.


LOL. Ritz didn't run 2:07 because of Salazar's coaching; Ritz ran 2:07 in spite of Salazar's coaching.

Would have happened four years ago with Hudson.
26mi235
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 11:26AM - in reply to Portland HS Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Do not know about Lemoncello, but Bairu has been 'fried' ever since his race a couple years ago when he was running pretty well and then fell apart late (Houston). He seems to have something go off around 20 miles. He knows that he is not yet over that problem and does not think he can race well until it is fixed and he says that it is not yet fixed. Nelson ran well until fading some that last 5 km or so, although Ryan Vail's great finish was the only one outside of the top six that was better than his 16:33/7:16.
splits
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 11:33AM - in reply to rupp-certified saladbar Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ritz was running with Hudson 4 years ago with no such luck.

Salazar has had Ritz PR twice this year - 2:09:55 off 3 months training, and then 2:07.

Salazar is the best coach in the US from 1500m - marathon.
riley stops
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 1:24PM - in reply to splits Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This race could be the beginning of the end for Nelson, Bairu and Vaughn. Don't be surprised if all three end up leaving Schumacher's group because they don't get resigned by Nike. It's unfortunate, but it's also part of being a professional athlete.
rupp-certified saladbar
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 2:34PM - in reply to splits Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

splits wrote:
Salazar has had Ritz PR twice this year - 2:09:55 off 3 months training, and then 2:07.

Salazar is the best coach in the US from 1500m - marathon.


HAHAHAHAHA!

First, 2:09:55 was a 5-second PR. Don't get too excited about that.

The fact he improved less than three minutes in five years is actually pretty bad, and he is still underperforming in the marathon.

Salazar might be the best 5/10 coach out there. He clearly has not figured out the marathon. Arguing otherwise just makes you like silly.
PresMustache
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 2:42PM - in reply to rupp-certified saladbar Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Everyone wants to be a marathoner.
It's not for everyone, no matter how good the coach.
yesgreatpoint
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 3:07PM - in reply to PresMustache Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
YES! +1. Everyone can technically be a "marathoner"-- but elite/world class is a whole different story. "Many will enter, few will win."
Nike reality check
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 4:04PM - in reply to 1 time doesnt make an expert Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

1 time doesnt make an expert wrote:

Other than Ritz 2008 Olympic Marathon what serious success has Hudson had in coaching the marathon?

Didn't most all of his runners underperformed or DNF'ed in marathons in 2012.

Hansons have 2 big success stories but over 14 yrs and 70+ athletes.

I think Hudson and the Hansons showed they CAN get it right depending on the situation and person, but I wouldn't say they have the event figured out.

Zap, McMillan, Hudson, Hansons, Jerry, Alberto, TUSAM all occassionally have success but more often miss than succeed. The Hudson probably have the best batting average of the lot but then they specialize in the event. But their success rate isn't exactly that impressive, compared to Canova, and Rosa and a few others.


There is definitley a measuring bar than needs to be used in comparing coaching. THE QUALITY OF ATHLETE THAT THEY ARE WORKING WITH. Let me give you some basics and then start measuring successes.

27:30 should be able to run 2:06
27:45 = 2:07:30
28:00 = 2:09
28:15 = 2:10:30
28:30 = 2:12
28:45 = 2:13:30
29:00 = 2:15
29:15 = 2:16:30

If you do not feel this is legit, I will gladly use whatever equivelancy standards that you see as legit. This way we can discuss how a coach is doing rather than having the same level of expectations for a 27:30 guy and a 29:00 guy.
Liberty Christian
RE: Coach Jerry fails in Marathon again 12/2/2012 4:09PM - in reply to come clean Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

come clean wrote:

I don't think you are putting as much blame on the athletes that is deserved. Shumacker has had a rough go, but maybe these athletes are just not cut out for the marathon.


Is there anyone who, at least from an outsider's perspective, seems more suited for the marathon than Nelson?
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