RE: Help Cancer Guy - Trying Again

Dr. Know wrote:

What kind of terminal cancer?

I have Chronic Leukocytic Leukemia. It's incurable, but very slow in progressing, and I might actually end up dying of something else.

What's the story with cancer guy?

That, my friend, is the million dollar question at this point. I'm sorry, I should have linked to the thread already.

Skip to the last couple of pages to get the details you're asking for. Go back to the beginning to get your heart torn out, and then inspired; rinse and repeat.

And I'm sorry for your sickness. I hope you live long and well in the face of it.

Alright! Another generous donor!

5 donors and we're at $415.00

http://www.giveforward.com/fight-like-a-runner

and go to the donation tab to see.

It adds up quick!

I just read the other thread dedicated to this subject, and I think I have some questions that others would want answers for as well.

You seem very committed to having your friend from Canada shoot these picutes. Unfortunately, it comes across as if one of your main goals is to help your photographer friend out. This makes the whole project a lot less altrustic. People who are considering donating money will need some quesitons answered:

-Surely a local photographer could provide work of similiar quality? You repeatedly say that only your friend can do this work but that arguement really is suspect.

-$7,500 is an awful lot of money for pictures. Couldn't this money be used for a better purpose?

-What is the breakdown of the $7500? What is the photographer's fee? Travel expenses? Materials? Etc? The more details the better.

It is not my intent to "fight" with you or question your motivations. However, your repeated insistance on using your friend and the large amount of money involved warrants these questions.

Thanks.

I would donate, but when a too large % of my donation is going to the photographer's travel expenses when there are many local ones who would do just as well or better, I decided not to.

Uh oh, you asked the wrong questions.

Prepare for emotional outburst.

Brent. wrote:

There is no excuse. I was tired

Does not compute.

Thanks for the questions.The answers that I have are all in the thread that you are referring to; as far as I know them anyway. I do not know yet how much travel will cost.Also, I repeatedly was told I was insisting on using my friend, while, in simple matter of fact, I repeatedly said I was willing to hand the project officially over to LRC and that "my photographer" could, then, not be used. I was 100% completely ignored on that. It seemed that people wanted only to complain but not actually do anything, a point that joho repeated in my defense a couple of times.I therefore waited a day, asking directly what everyone would like to do. No response! I was shocked and very disappointed.So, my final response in that thread (where I was, admittedly and embarrassingly, boneheaded) ( http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4705820 ), which I hope you got to, was:

So, after no one stepped up, I just kept going with the plan I already had in motion.

I had to make the decision to just focus on those who will both see the value of the project, and those who know that the person who is invested personally will probably do the best job to see the project through, well, and those who know that, in this case, it is time to just step up and do what CG already said he wanted (as opposed to other offers that he didn't/wouldn't accept) and that his wife was excited about.

And really, it's not that expensive at all since we are spreading it over, probably, a couple hundred people. Five people already have given, and if the average continues it will take less than a 100 of us to have the funds and get the ball rolling.

Man! We could have this project half done in a couple weeks easily, I think (I.E., the photo shoot would be done).

Thanks for asking. I know others have the same questions, so this is an opportunity to, hopefully, change our perspective.

Love & Thanks!

Okay, I get what you are saying.

But, again, I'd just like a general breakdown of the expenses. I'm sure you must have had some thoughts in your mind when you came up with the $7500, and I'd like to here them.

Is your photographer friend offering his services at a reduced rate or is he charging the full rate? I too would be interested in know exactly how that $7,500 is going to be spread out.

Brent. wrote:

Dr. Know wrote:

What kind of terminal cancer?

I have Chronic Leukocytic Leukemia. It's incurable, but very slow in progressing, and I might actually end up dying of something else.

What's the story with cancer guy?

That, my friend, is the million dollar question at this point. I'm sorry, I should have linked to the thread already.

Skip to the last couple of pages to get the details you're asking for. Go back to the beginning to get your heart torn out, and then inspired; rinse and repeat.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4428533&page=12

Thanks.

You're right.

I need some answers, and Whoopi,I'm sorry for the slow reply. I saw your questions before going to bed last night (again, I'm in Japan), but didn't know how I wanted to respond. And I didn't know how I wanted to respond for the simple reason that all of the relevant information is in the other thread; it can be pieced together very easily (something I would have guessed someone had already done).But the still general and ballparkish numbers break down this way:

Photographer at half his day rate - $750 a day. (3 or 4 days)

Six photo books @ around $180 each.

Other expenses include airfare from Halifax, around $1,000 I think. Hotel and meals, around $500 I think.

That is in line with what I mentioned previously. I was aiming originally at $5,000, but thought it was cutting it close. I therefore decided to raise the goal to $7,500 to be extra sure to get everything taken care of, and anything left over would be donated to CG. I would rather do that than to have too little and then ask for more later which people would really not like, I don't think.

And a further note: I'm waiting on some information from Cancer Guy that I think should come shortly that will allow those who are unable to support this project give another way. When that comes I will provide info and a link here, and start another thread for the board and CG.

Love & Thanks!

I am sorry. This sounds like a nice gesture but reeks of a scam.

Brent. wrote:

Photographer at half his day rate - $750 a day. (3 or 4 days)

Man, I picked the wrong career. If $750 is half of a photographer's daily rate, he' making just under $400K/yr. Not bad for taking pictures.

Ah, the guy is unknown, no website, no clients (why can't you even give us his name?)...and his rate is $1,500/day in the middle of nowhere, Canada? You even mentioned he needed clients and money. This is just outrageous.

I will not participate in that project.

You guys are misconstruing the way this photography work, er, works.

First, normally a shoot for normal portraiture only lasts a few hours at the most, and they have a particular rate for that, varying depending on if it is in studio or another location. When a photographer is hired to travel and spend days on a project, however, it gets very expensive, i.e., a "day rate". Someone had confirmed in the other thread that the rate above is in line with other established photographers. Looking at Erin's rates (the photographer that someone had suggested in CG's thread), she charges at least as much, and probably more (she was suggested because someone thought she may do the work for free).

http://andrewmurphy.ca/

I didn't link before because, for his own reasons which I question myself, Andrew only keeps very few images there and I didn't think it was worth much trying to prove anything from that site. That was, I'm sure, a mistake also (on my part for not providing it before).

Anyway, the reason I just checked in here was because I wanted to try to help everyone understand why, from the beginning, I suggested Andrew. I'll put that in a separate post.

My sister is a photographer and I'll add that this rate is inline with what she charges. I too find it crazy expensive but this is what they charge and what people pay.

They don't work on a job every day (not really the demand for that) so that 400k figure above is way high and is assuming they do. Most people have pictures taken on weekends...because they work during the week.

Anyway, just my experience.

As I stated in other places, I have a very deep commitment to how this book should look and feel. I want to try to convey why Andrew's work, linked below, is more than what probably first meets the eye.

http://andrewmurphy.ca/

http://ge.tt/79yydxK?t=1343225525495

"Environmental and editorial portraiture", as stated in his own words, gives a little clue. Most people wouldn't even immediately think of portraiture when seeing Andrew's work. It looks like he just "takes pictures of people".

Where his work differs is in giving context to his subject and telling a story. Most importantly, he tells the story of who the subject is, really, and what they are like, really.

With "normal" portraiture we get the story, "Kate having her portrait taken." It's Kate's face and features. But it is with the expression that people who know Kate only see when, well, she is having her portrait taken. In that sense, it isn't really "Kate".

But here, and I really don't even like these two photos, don't you feel you "get" who Kate is? How she expresses herself and gets very passionate and animated about things she's interested in?

http://ge.tt/79yydxK/v/72

http://ge.tt/79yydxK/v/82

Those expressions on her face are those that people who know her have seen hundreds of times. It's really Kate! Normal portraiture doesn't usually come within a mile of getting the expressions those who know Kate actually see.

Here's another.

http://ge.tt/79yydxK/v/92

To most people we think, "Meh! So what? A guy laughing." Well, yes. But, if you stop and look and think about him for a minute, you get the story of the kind of person he is. A person that doesn't get too wound up about things and knows how to relax and have a good time. Not too laid back, but certainly not getting very uptight about things.

Now why is this important for a photo book like I envision? Because, as I said, the main point is to give CG back to his family. The real CG, as it were. I want them to say, "Yep! That was Dad alright." Or, "Yeah! That sure was my brother! Always finding a way to slip in some humor and lighten the mood."

And then there is this:

http://ge.tt/79yydxK/v/4

I mean, don't you see . . . Wait! No. I don't get this one at all. Domesticated animals really want to eat our food maybe??? Let's skip that one.

A lot of the photos should speak for themselves. Some of them are more towards traditional, which certainly needs to be part of the book as well.

Also, Andrew's work tells a deeper story than just who the people are, but also what they are going through, while keeping things artistic. His father and mother, for example, as she was being ravaged by disease, and finally passed away.

Here:

http://ge.tt/79yydxK/v/3

The lady that knows she's got the answer and is confident about it. She may be right or wrong. But she sure believes. And, that's her. Whether she is right or wrong, everyone who knows her knows this is the way she is.

A couple things to note. Those people are those people. CG and his family are CG and his family. They will come across as who they are. CG will come across as CG. His family will get the "real" thing (with apologies to put it that way in this situation). Another thing is that doing this sort of work is not easy. If you understand photography hopefully you can see how non-posed work (i.e. with motion), with shallow depth of field, and yet critical focus necessary to any sort of portraiture is difficult.

One more thing to add I think. As you can see by Andrew's site, he is happily minimalist. It became more clear to me after wanting Andrew for other reasons, but his minimalist way of working is also a benefit. CG was worried about his children being too curious why a photographer was around. I didn't think about it at first, but partly the reason is that CG, I'm sure, has an idea of a photographer coming in with a bunch of gear, flashes, lenses, etc., etc. Andrew will come with a digital Leica (if you know, it's about being simple and the style of shooting, i.e., minimalist), maybe two lenses, and a backup camera and lens. It will probably all be in one decent sized bag. No flashes, no production or direction (little anyway).

Andrew can come in and just "make friends" with CG and his family, and snap photos as they enjoy each others company. Asking other portrait photogs to do this would be asking them to operate like a fish out of water. They just aren't used to doing this, and it takes practice to do well.

Oh! As you can see, Andrew is partial to monochrome. I asked him to include about 25% color in the book, which he agreed to (if I hadn't asked it would have no more color than whatever material is on the books cover). There is a very good and artistic way of putting the color and BW together which will, I think, look fantastic.

Last thing (promises, promises), the reason for wanting Andrew to shoot over a few days is because, as you can see from his other work, it is all about telling who people are, what they like to do, the places they like to go. To get good variety and tell a fuller story it will take some time. Add to that that CG gets tired very easily, and the more time to shoot the better for the project.

Not trying to be a dick but there are TONS of people who are capeable of taking pictures like that. I saw nothing $750 for a half day quality in this work.