| Junior in HS |
| ||
|
I'm in a desperate pursuit of becoming more than just mediocre. My 5k PR is 18:30 and I ran a 2:03 800 in track, but I want to be a lot better than that. I think that I could conceivably run sub 17 this fall, but will more likely be in the 17:20s. I'm definitely a speed guy, endurance does not come to me naturally but I split 52.7 in a 4x400 my freshman year. So I think 17:00-17:20 would make my goal of a 4:25 1600m possible. This summer I made a decision that I would try to go as many days as possible without skipping a run, so far I'm about a month in without skipping, the last 4 weeks have progressed like this; 35, 39, 30, 42, I still have 3 more weeks before the first practices start, Im planning to go 45, 48, 50. This is without a doubt the most consistent I have ever been. All of my runs are in singles, my last long run was 10 miles. Most of my runs have been at a pace that I can carry painlessly but doesn't feel like I'm crawling, which means the pace ranges from 7:50ish for 4-6 miles when I'm feeling good to 8:40 when I'm feeling crappy, but usually they are about ~8:20. My long runs are at about 8:30 - 9:00. I haven't done any tempos but when running with training buddies I usually average 7:15ish for 5 miles. What should I add in to get the most out of my training? |
| Running on Empathy |
| ||
|
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
| Junior in HS |
| ||
|
Bump Running on Empathy, that wasn't exactly what I was looking for. |
| sc42 |
| ||
|
Your mileage is good, and the progression of mileage you laid out is good. A 10 mile long run is plenty for HS XC. The main thing you can do is to make 1-2 of your weekly runs a tempo run. In the summer, it's fine to do tempo by feel - just running at a comfortably hard pace for 20-40 minutes. aim for a pace that allows you to finish a bit faster than you started, at a hard cruise. With 52 quarter speed and progression to 50 mile weeks, your goals are very attainable. Don't be afraid to do a few miles more, say 60, in your biggest week. |
| laxmack117 |
| ||
^This^. What I would suggest is very similar. I agree your mileage progression seems good. Even though you are a speed guy, you still want to keep in touch with that speed when running a lot of long slow miles. So I would also recommend doing some strides at the end of your runs. Example, 6X20 seconds relevantly quick, but not a sprint. Also, you want to get use to hitting 5:30 pace. Having 52 quarter speed and running most your runs at 7:30 or slower, you never hit on that pace that's in the middle; the one you intend on being able to run for 17 minutes. So I'd suggest 2 times a week progressively getting faster for the last 2-3 miles of your easy run, so your running that last 800m in around 5:30 pace, just so you can start getting comfortable with running that fast when your legs aren't fresh. However this shouldn't be so hard you're straining or tired for the rest of the day. Just trying to click through the gears every now and then. |
| Junior in HS |
| ||
|
Thanks for the great replies! Should I keep my long run at 10 miles and no more? I do feel like 11 or 12 might be a little bit excessive for 5k but I don't know everything so I just figured I'd keep building up until it was 12 or 13. 5:30 pace is cooking for me right now, then again I haven't run that fast since early may so it should come back if I just get used to it again. HOw fast should the strides be? Right now I can probably run 35 second 200s until the cows come home, so should they be 150s at 30 sec pace or so? Good idea on the pick up at the end of runs, I'll add that in. How often should I do strides? 3 times a week sound good? |
| umm |
| ||
|
you've gotta do your runs faster. 8:40 is far too slow for a 4:25. you should be averaging about 7:20 to 7:45 at the slowest for easy/long runs and definetly under 6 for tempo. i made a similar improvement to what youre looking for between sophomore and junior year, so its definetly doable |
| Junior in HS |
| ||
|
looking back at my log my long runs actually are faster than 8:30-9:00, there more like ~8:00 but thanks for the advice! |
| laxmack117 |
| ||
|
10 miles is a decent distance for a long run, but there is nothing wrong with bumping it up to 12. If anything, I'd suggest trying to pick the pace up a little bit instead (average ~7:30 pace). As for the strides, run them at say 16 second 100m pace, just to give you an idea of how fast. You don't have to be strict about hitting a specific pace though, the point is to be keeping your legs use to turning over quickly. As malmo (a common poster on these boards) would say, don't over think your training. Just run. You're just trying to prepare yourself for when the true training begins this fall. |
| lease |
| ||
|
Personally, I agree with Malmo: the long run is the least important (not UNimportant, just LEAST important) session of the week. If you go by the 20% rule (which works for a lot of people), your longest run in a 50-mile week would be a ten-miler. Now that you're moving to more miles on a consistent basis, I'd agree with Malmo again and suggest that you get some of the mileage in doubles. With long singles, esp. in hot weather, there can be a real hangover effect the next day; with doubles (even just 1-2 days/week) you'll be fresh for more of your runs--important, if you're going to be upping the pace of some of them--and recover better. Speaking of recovery, something that has a *huge* benefit is to get in the habit of going to bed at (pretty much) the same time each night and waking at about the same time each morning, EVEN ON WEEKENDS. If you're really going to substantially increase your overall quality of running while simultaneously increasing the quantity (total mileage)*, consistent sleep--and probably 5-10 more hours of sleep, each week, than you're used to--is absolutely key. *a situation that you should be very, very careful with! |
| Junior in HS |
| ||
|
so are you saying i shoud split some of the days into doubles so that I can cut the pace down to low 7 minute miles, but keep my mileage the same, or add on another 2-3 runs a week, jacking my mileage up another 8-10 miles for the total week? I don't see how I could conceivably speed up the pace while doing more and not burn out because I can't recover. |
| Fluffy |
| ||
|
Do push ups... loads and loads of push ups |
| lease |
| ||
Sorry not to have been clear! Let me try again: From your responses to other posters, it seemed that you were intending to do some of your runs (or portions of them, anyway) at a faster pace than what you were running previously. IN ADDITION, in the OP you detailed how you've been increasing mileage steadily, and plan to continue doing so. If you stick to your mileage plan--and I agree with others, it seems like a reasonable progression--AND you follow through (as you implied) on doing faster running in several of your weekly miles: then I would definitely advocate that you move to doubles (while keeping the same mileage progression that you had planned). Splitting up your planned mileage will make it easier to recover from the faster stuff that you're planning to move to. Again, sorry about being unclear in the previous post... |
| sc42 |
| ||
|
Adding strides to the end (or middle) of an easy run is an excellent suggestion. These don't have to be highly structured - just accelerate to a hard float for 15 seconds, then drop back to easy pace, and repeat that 8-10 times. You don't have to be too concerned about the pace of your steady regular runs. Go quicker on days you feel good, and back off on days you feel tired. I know some great runners who run their recovery runs pretty easy when their body says it is tired. The main thing is to hit your tempo runs with good consistent effort, and as another poster suggested, stay in touch with speed using strides. The strides are not intended to be a hard interval workout, just a reminder of how to be relaxed and fluid at race pace (or a faster). You should not be afraid to go 11 or 12 miles if you feel like it. There is nothing magic about any of these specific workouts... get good consistent mileage, 1-2 tempos a week, some strides and a decent long run, and you'll find yourself feeling strong in the fall. Two a days: I've done these consistently for many years, but I don't think they're necessary for mileage less than 50 or 60 mpw. Once you're around that mileage, you might check what feels easier on your body - increasing the mileage of each run, or adding a few short doubles. Alot of people find that adding a couple of 3 mile runs as doubles is easier (mentally and physically) than adding a mile to all of your other runs. But it is not a big deal - you'll benefit from either. As other posters have noted, Malmo (who held the American record in the steeple) has posted some great,detailed advice on all of this. Use the search function for 'summer of Malmo' and you'll find a lot of useful advice. |
| YoYoYo123 |
| ||
|
I've been doing almost exactly the same training as you (except I'm already at 50mpw), and I have similar PRs to you. The pace is also a problem for me... I don't know if I should take it up a notch or not. |
| sc42 |
| ||
|
I agree with the last post from lease - increasing both miles and intensity can leave you feeling cooked. Breaking some days into doubles might make that easier. You're going to feel tired some days. If you are planning 9 and feel tired at 6, just add an easy 3 the next morning, rather than slogging it out. |
| sc42 |
| ||
Don't worry too much about the pace of easy runs. Hit the tempo runs and strides, and do the others as you feel. |
| Running on Empathy |
| ||
Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing now. It seems to be working for you - why do something radically different? My suggestion is that you just give it time. It sounds like more of a self-confidence issue than an actual training issue, something that will come with physcial maturity. FYI - I too ran 52-ish in a 400 split, 2 flat-ish in the 800 my senior year, and ended up running 4:26 while in 4:20 shape (I was a kicker, not a front runner). One trick I learned purely by accident was that I could start my kick earlier (at the 300 mark) and cut 3 or 4 seconds off my time, and I credit this ability from getting that 400 time down to the low 50 range. |
| excuse my French |
| ||
|
The mileage increase sounds good. General rule for increasing mileage is to increase by NO MORE than 10% per week. (ie. if you're doing 40 miles this week, don't bump it up to more than 44 the ne and next week) Also, if you have plenty of time to build up over the course of a summer, I like to increase mileage for 3 weeks, then drop your mileage the 4th week and pick up where you left off the following weeks (ie. 40 44 48 40 48 53 58 48) etc. You can't really afford to overdo it and the best benefit of training for such an extended period is the aerobic benefits your body will reap over time, so even if the mileage increase feels too gradual, its better than risking injury. Also, "easy pace" isn't something thats cut and dried. rather it should be based on feel and should be a pace that would allow you to recover between workouts (ie. NOT pushing it too hard). Most define it as at least 130 beats per minute (anything less is too easy), but below 160 (way too hard, closer to threshold). You don't even need a heart rate monitor for this (two fingers to the neck and count), and its a good habit to get into taking your pulse for 15 seconds and multiplying by 4. First thing in the morning, is a good indicator of a lot of things, how your body is responding to training and how recovered you are from workouts. For speed, Jack Daniels and a lot of other coaches recommend strides as other posters have discussed, like 6x20sec/100 meters to keep that foot speed there. best way to develop foot speed without a high injury risk, can even mix the strides in over the course of a fartlek. If you're not doing workouts, having a few runs a week where you try to run faster than easy pace, let's call it steady state pushing tempo pace will benefit you and get you ready for real workouts come organized practice. Also, hill running is good (don't have to do an actual workout, just get an easy run in on a hilly route)helps out with the form/running economy and adds an additional stress. Hope some of this helps. Feel free to critique, this is simply the way I was trained for most of my career for summer base phase. |
| it will help... |
| ||
|
add interval hills once a week. any distance from 200m to 800m and of varying incline....10 x 300m hill. |