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40 Year Old Kenyan
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 5:26PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So the question was who has done better.
You converted others' times to say they have - which they haven't - and now say it's about what was done not could have done.
Is your hypocrisy so ingrained you really don't realize you are doing it?

malmo wrote:

Dude, I already threw Nyambui's name out of the ring just to appease your new metric for comparison. Why keep bringing his name up?

You can only go by what Levins actually did, not what you think he could have done.

DO you really think that the both the 10k and 5k this year would have been the same if they were back-to-back? Or back-to-back-to-back? That's a stretch, and also pure conjecture.

The facts stand. Levins ran two finals with 46 hours rest between. Kimombwa and Virgin ran two finals back to back, with a qualifying round in the 5k the day before the 10k.

It doesn't seem like a contest at all. You might go ahead and give the subjective nod to Levins over Virgin, but Kimombwa had the best double.
Oldtimer Here
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 5:48PM - in reply to 40 Year Old Kenyan Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Henry Rono's, performance when he set records in 5k and 3K Steeplechase on the same day, and broke them again the next day. He steeplechase record still stands and his 5K and 10K numbers have hardly been bettered by most athletes. May be most are too young or not well versed in History to remember. Cams performance were good but not exceptional, I mean there is a dude who doubled in 100M and 110M hurdles.
malmo
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 5:53PM - in reply to Oldtimer Here Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oldtimer Here wrote:
Cams performance were good but not exceptional,


Shirley you jest?
malmo
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 6:01PM - in reply to 40 Year Old Kenyan Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There is nothing hypocritical about making subjective assessments between 28:07/13:40 and 28:10/13:38 performances. Using a purely objective metric, even you can see that a 2 second difference in 5k times is more than 3 seconds in a 10k? Or can't you?
Oldtimer Here
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 6:04PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
malmo wrote:

[quote]Oldtimer Here wrote:
Cams performance were good but not exceptional,


Shirley you jest?[/quote]
Not at all, Henry Rono Ran 8:05.4 in Steeplechase (Many Nations have no one within 10 Seconds of this) and 13:08.4 in 5K during the same championships, all still collegiate records, the steeplechase was a world record for 11 years.
Chuck has a question
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 6:55PM - in reply to Oldtimer Here Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Whos's mileage in the present or past compared to Cam's?
2011fool
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 7:19PM - in reply to Haha, YO (super cereal) Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Haha, YO (super cereal) wrote:

Someone get some past results up.
Who has bested his total time?
No one.....


Just last year Iona's Korir ran 28.07 followed by 13.35 while Chelanga ran 28.12 followed by 13.29.
They did this with a day's less of recovery between the races because of race delays. This was just last year. Some people have such short memories when a white guy runs fast...

Overall times:
Chelanga - 41.41
Korir - 41.42
Levins - 41.47
2011fool
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 7:22PM - in reply to 2011fool Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Obviously they didn't win both events but still...a day less.
tacomafan
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 7:49PM - in reply to 2011fool Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
How about Henry Rono - 8:18/13:21 with 4 hours rest?
malmo
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 8:17PM - in reply to 2011fool Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
2011fool wrote:

Just last year Iona's Korir ran 28.07 followed by 13.35 while Chelanga ran 28.12 followed by 13.29.
They did this with a day's less of recovery between the races because of race delays. This was just last year. Some people have such short memories when a white guy runs fast...

Overall times:
Chelanga - 41.41
Korir - 41.42
Levins - 41.47


Good catch.

1 Leonard Korir SR Iona 28:07.63 10
2 Sam Chelanga SR Liberty 28:12.18 8
3 Stephen Sambu JR Arizona 28:19.61 6
4 Chris Derrick JR Stanford 28:26.65 5
5 Jake Riley SR Stanford 28:27.31 4
6 Luke Puskedra JR Oregon 28:33.47 3
7 Keith Gerrard SR New Mexico 28:36.33 2
8 Joe Bosshard SO Colorado 28:41.56 1

1 Sam Chelanga SR Liberty 13:29.30 10
2 Lawi Lalang FR Arizona 13:31.69 8
3 Leonard Korir SR Iona 13:35.71 6
4 Chris Derrick JR Stanford 13:36.17 5
5 Diego Estrada JR Northern Arizona 13:38.36 4
6 Rory Fraser SR New Mexico 13:39.40 3
7 Cameron Levins JR Southern Utah 13:40.30 2
8 Donn Cabral JR Princeton 13:40.62 1
malmo
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 8:20PM - in reply to Oldtimer Here Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oldtimer Here wrote:
Not at all, Henry Rono Ran 8:05.4 in Steeplechase (Many Nations have no one within 10 Seconds of this) and 13:08.4 in 5K during the same championships, all still collegiate records, the steeplechase was a world record for 11 years.


Rono ran 8:05.4 in Seattle, May 13 1978. His 13:08.4 was in a dual meet in Berkeley, April 8, 1978.

At the 1978 heat ran in the qualifying heats

2:45pm June 1 8:18.63
6:40pm June 1 13:21.79

his splits in that 5000 were (jogging the curves, sprinting the straights):
(all splits 440 yards)
1:05 (65)
2:06 (61)
3:05 (59)
4:08 (63) 1 mile
5:15 (67)
6:17 (62)
7:27 (70)
8:33 (66) 2 miles
9:41 (68)
10:50 (69)
11:55 (65)
12:56 (61) 3 miles
13:21.79
Finish (58.3, 2:02.9, 4:18.2)

Rono ran 8:12.39 in the steeplechase finals. Did not start in the 5000m.
40 year old Kenyan
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 8:22PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Here is a "purely objective metric" for you.

41:47<41:48.

As soon as you become subjective you lose the right to say people can't be subjective. (Well except on letsrun where every time you are made to look like an idiot you have the post deleted.)

Others may have been able to double better than Levins if they didn't have the laundry list of excuses you want to trumpet about but none have. Sorry old man, time has moved on without you.
malmo
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 8:27PM - in reply to 40 year old Kenyan Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You have issues.
40 yer old Kenyan
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 8:29PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
malmo wrote:

You have issues.


I'm not saying I don't but... really mister pot, am I black.
newname
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 9:33PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The OP says "double wins at NCAAs - who's done better in NCAA history?

I have gotten a lecture from George before about how PLACE is the key metric in judging performance, with TIME being second I think ...

But I don't have a short memory at all, I thought it was fundamental that if someone had "done better" than Levins they also had to win both events?

The poster did not ask "who has run a faster double?", or who has run faster under tougher conditions, or who had a more impressive performance because of rounds.

Those are all different things, and would all likely have a different winner. George has a great advantage, because he WAS THERE. However, I did not forget about Korir, or Kimobwa or Virgin. I didn't mention them because they did not win both events, so their doubles (while amazingly impressive) don't top Levins because they didn't win both events.
not feeling cam
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 9:51PM - in reply to irun Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just don't see this guy going further than this. Do you see him going head to head with Africans who will pushing blistering pace instead of tactical jogs for a 400 meter sprint at the end? Big no in my book.
newname
RE: Cam Levins: 28:07, 13:40 double wins at NCAA's - who's done better in NCAA history? 6/9/2012 10:10PM - in reply to malmo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
malmo wrote:


That's cool. I see what you did there. Throw in another variable: AGE.

OK, just for sake of your new rules, lets throw out Nyambui from the discussion.

Let's see. Derrick didn't do squat in the 5000. He isn't even in the ballpark.

Lets compare Levins who just turned 23 to Kimombwa and Virgin, who were both 21 in 1977.

23 year old Levins: 2012 NCAA
Tuesday rest rest rest rest
8:45pm Wed 28:07.14 1st
Thursday rest rest rest rest rest
7:10pm Fri 13:40.05 1st


21 year old Kimombwa 1977 NCAA
7:35pm Thur 13:51.78 1st Heat 2
7:15pm Fri 28:10.27 1st
4:50pm Sat 13:38.57 2nd (winner Josh Kimeto 13:38.14)

21 year old Virgin 1977 NCAA
7:35pm Thur 13:53.18 2nd heat 2
7:15pm Fri 28:22.48 2nd
4:50pm Sat 13:42.06 4th

Levins runs two finals with two days rest between races. Kimombwa and Virgin, both two years younger, run their two finals back-to-back. Add the qualifying round of the 5k, that makes it back-to-back-to-back races.

You still don't see that 13:51/28:10/13:38 back-to-back heats/finals with is much better than 28:07/13:40 with 46 hours rest between?

What's more, Kimombwa actually got after it in his 5k race, running the first mile in 4:20flat, then breaking out the next three laps in 3:09 before wilting under the blazing Sun.


I started running a little after this year, and I am a big fan of Virgin, and I have some TaFNews issues from this era so I know a bit about it. A lot more than someone who is young now at least. I went to the NCAA Meet in Champaign in '79 also. I was a little kid, but I remember Don Paige's 800/1500 double.

I am amazed that they would grant the NCAAs to Illinois twice in 3 yrs like that. I am even more amazed that they ran distance finals in peak afternoon sun. I am further EVEN more amazed that they ran the 10k and 5k finals on consecutive days.

I can't imagine running a Championship ~13:40 5k one day after running 28:10 in a 10k on a track. And although it is not hot like Texas or Arizona, running in June in southern Illinois is no joke if you have never done it.

Chapeau to Virgin and Kimobwa, exploits like theirs were what made the 70s and that Running Boom era GREAT.

One thing that seems to have improved is the NCAA seems to be thinking of the athletes when they space events that people will likely double in, one day apart, and run the distance races in the evening. At least some things have improved.
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