Pages: | 1 | 2 |
once a jogger
How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:19AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
40yo runner here, been running for about 8 years averaging about 70mpw for the last 4 years. Last year I had periods where I was doing 90-100mpw during the winter and summer. This year, running just seems to be more painful particular on the knees. Twinges of pain in the knees become more common in runs. The other day I noticed that my knee was making a clicking noise as I was walking down some steps. Also, it seems that around the 10 mile mark of almost every run, the pain becomes more pronounced.

I'm hitting the trails more often and trying to a 9 day training week to give myself more time to recover between harder runs. Just wondering if other master runners have gone through this and what you did training wise to get through it. Any supplements I should look into that could help the knees? Should I incorporate weights into my training? I'm thinking maybe I might have worn some of my cartiledge away.

I'd like to be eventually get back up to doing 90-100 but at this point, I'd be happy if I could just run pain free averaging 70.
Solomona the Capasnaove
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:29AM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am 51 now and am very decent runner - I run about 90 miles and maybe try to push that up to 110 over summer. I have been relatively injury-free but did have a fluke hamstring injury last summer after landing on a rock and tearing my hamstring.

When I was 37 I developed severe arthritis in both my knees - It came on quite suddenly. At the time I wa in very good shape and was pretty big blow. I went to park many times hoping I might feel better but eventually I could not even make it 100 meters. I thought my running career was over. I began taking glucosamine and in two weeks (no exageration) I was up to about six miles. I continued taking for about 6 weeks - and I have never had any problem in my knees since. I haven't taken the stuff in 14 years. Truly a wonder drug for me.
Not Sure
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:31AM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

once a jogger wrote:

40yo runner here, been running for about 8 years averaging about 70mpw for the last 4 years. Last year I had periods where I was doing 90-100mpw during the winter and summer. This year, running just seems to be more painful particular on the knees. Twinges of pain in the knees become more common in runs. The other day I noticed that my knee was making a clicking noise as I was walking down some steps. Also, it seems that around the 10 mile mark of almost every run, the pain becomes more pronounced.

I'm hitting the trails more often and trying to a 9 day training week to give myself more time to recover between harder runs. Just wondering if other master runners have gone through this and what you did training wise to get through it. Any supplements I should look into that could help the knees? Should I incorporate weights into my training? I'm thinking maybe I might have worn some of my cartiledge away.

I'd like to be eventually get back up to doing 90-100 but at this point, I'd be happy if I could just run pain free averaging 70.


You might want to see a doctor to check your knee. As you get older, it only gets worse. YOU might need a day off weekly.
Kicker
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:38AM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ed Whitlock seems to be the best at it. But he trains slow ( no speed work ) and races fast.

I could not maintain higher mileage much beyond my mid forties. I was just tired and beat up all the time. Finally went to a four day training week with each running day being 8-10 miles. My body started to recover and my racing times came down to a point where I was competitive in my age group (45-49).

I found that I could add miles to the days I ran with almost no big issues but I needed those 3 days a week totally off for recovery.
dhaaga
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:40AM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
sorry to hear about the knees. For context, I'm 50 and deal with knee stuff sometimes along with a host of other strains and "-itis"'es.

I take glucosamine/chondroitin triple strength (2 pills in am daily for last 8 years or so). I gather there is some research suggesting it's somewhat of a placebo, but I haven't been moved to drop it yet.

9-day cycle is a good idea if your work and other stuff fit with it. 2 days easy between long and/or hard runs makes sense I think as you get older.

Getting on trails when you can is also good.

I started a weights routine (now at 3x per 9 days) when I was about your age (got advice from a PT on it), and I think that's helpful as well.

Finally, averaging 70 (in singles?), if you do quality workouts too, is a lot. I have gotten as high as 90 this year when training for Boston and am at 70 now, but I'm not sure I hit 70 for a year-round average. There's some possibility you may need to cut back, at least in parts of the year, and maybe supplement with more time on bike or elliptical for low-impact aerobic effort.

Good luck with this,

Dave

PS if you're not on it already, check the "masters weekend runs and races" thread [starts Sunday mornings]. Lots of knowledgeable people on there who might have a perspective on this or other training questions that come up.
Junk Master
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:42AM - in reply to Not Sure Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I really believe the key to high mileage for a master's athlete is the discipline to add a more recovery runs.

If my legs feel dead after slogging and hour to and hour and a half on asphalt at my typical training pace, I do two recovery jogs the next day. 25 to 40 minute JOGS.

I'll take a day off at least every other week too.
oldster
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 10:55AM - in reply to Junk Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
44 yo here. I run 70 mpw and ramp up to 100 during marathon training. I agree with Junk Master that it's all about recovery and as I get older, I find I need more time. I used to be able to get away with 1 day between a track workout and a tempo run, but now need 2. 3 if it was a particularly tough workout. I also seem to need more time to recover from a race. I can still get away with a 7 day program, but I have to remember to run my easy days *really* easy.

The other thing is consistency. I run 7 days a week and keep my mileage up. My aches and pains always crop up when I'm building mileage. Then they go away once I level out.
has been who never was
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 11:31AM - in reply to oldster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Lots of high mileage masters here, starting with the OP, who I would define as a higher mileage runner relative to age.

Can you guys please post what the mileage has gotten you in terms of race results? Significant improvement from lower mileage or about the same? Curious because I am a year or so back into racing and seem to be fine on 35-40 mpw, but also feel like my body can handle more. I feel like days off (I typically only run 5 days) are very good for me, but am willing to bump things up if I will see some results in the end.

Finally, do you attribute the higher mileage to your love for running, your desire to improve and race fast or a combo of both? I guess what I'm asking is when it comes down to it, would you run the high mileage regardless of whether or not it had a + effect on your racing?

Thanks all and have a great weekend.
once a jogger
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 11:35AM - in reply to oldster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to look into glucosamine. I was curious as to how long it would take the body to absorb before its effects were noticed.

dhaaga - which exercises did you find helpful in your weight routing? As far as my running goes, I don't really do any workouts these days. Just run based on how my body feels for the day.

I'm hesitant to see a doc about the knee issues since the last I went to one a few years back, I was basically reminded that I wasn't a spring chicken anymore.
how bout this bud
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 11:56AM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Both of my knees click as well and have for a long time. I'm 40 but I haven't done high mileage in a year (non running injury). I don't get injured anymore since I changed my form and started running in flats. It's been four years now for me. Are you a mid/forefoot runner? You may want to look into that.
Uncle Pervy unlogged
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 12:16PM - in reply to how bout this bud Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My knee clicked (and got worse/louder) for 12 years. PT said i had tightest hamstrings she had ever seen. Two months of stretching and all cleared up.

Coming back (again) from repeated calf tears. Finding that aTue-Thur-Sat-Sun schedule is working to get me ready for base training. Doing an hour plus on those days. Bike and weights on the others. Looking to add running on bike days once 69-75 min feels easy on the running days.
Ol' Bones
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 12:19PM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'll be 65 in a few months but I've been lucky (or...unlucky, depending on your perspective) enough to be able to get in 55-65 mile weeks pretty consistently.Never take any days off, but do go EASY on easy days. This month,about 70% of my runs have been under 9:00 pace and roughly 30% of that total has been under 8:00 pace. At this age, I never run more than 6% of my total monthly mileage at race pace (6:5X) or faster.
No real injury problems to speak of. ITB barks now and then, and one of my hammies is always sore...too much scar tissue in there I'm afraid from all the years and all the tweaks.
Junk Master
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 1:24PM - in reply to Ol' Bones Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Inspiring! I'd be delighted to be running a mile per year of age over 60.
agip
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 1:31PM - in reply to Junk Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
ja, it is up to the individual - on my team we have lots of 40+ guys doing 70 mpw, a few 50+ guys and maybe 1 60+.

But others, myself included, can't run that much. I hit 55 without problem - any more than that and I hurt all over.
Turned again runner
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 1:52PM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
There have been a number of good responses already, and indeed it depends a lot on the individual.

As 40+ I've tried high intensity-low mileage (40-45 mpw) for shorter distances (800 to 5K) with some success and up to 80 or 85 mpw for marathons. With marathons however, I've built to that level about a month out and then dropped down. 10 week average leading up more in the 65-70 mpw range because I build in recovery weeks. Also with marathons it's not the longer weeks per se, it's the combination of a long run and medium long run, often with extensive marathon pace or threshold/tempo effort that seems to wear me down. I think I could build to 80 mpw and do a lot more of them if it was just LSD pace but that's not the way I train.

All that said, been most comfortable racing 5K to 25K at about 50 to 70 mpw with lots of easy recovery days and weeks mixed in, a fair amount of tempo running, and minimalist speed training--just enough to get by.

I also work with several masters runners, all gung ho marathoners. They've done well at about 70 - 80 mpw but start running into overuse problems when they get into the 80s.
dhaaga
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 2:11PM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
hard to say what in particular useful in weight routine b/c I've grafted lots onto it to deal with piriformis, achilles, hamstring stuff, etc. etc., but a few examples (almost all machines, not free weights)

lat pulldowns
calf raises on leg press machine
4-way hip machine
rotary torso
3 or 4 that deal in one way or another with abs and back
pullup apparatus

i am blanking on the name for some reason, but probably most specific to knee is the one where i'm sitting and facing forward,and feet curled under me a bit -- lift up against resistance to straighten both legs in front of me -- for quads

It's not weights per se, but when I'm doing weights I also do a floor exercise with a big stability ball which is

30 X lying face up, feet up on ball, lift whole body from shoulders down to make a straight line and hold for 5-count

30 X same as first thing but instead of holding it, bend knees to roll the ball toward your butt, and return.

----------------------

re the post asking us all about race benefits from higher mileage. Don't know since I've always been very gradually increasing over the years (since return to serious running in late 30's after 10 years or so of maintenance exercise and little racing). I stayed the same or got faster from 37 to about 48 y.o. and matched or bettered my college/graduate school times for 5k to marathon [not as fast mile or 2 mile], and have been deteriorating past two years.

I would run a lot (by my standards) regardless of race results, unless I had good reason to believe it was making me much slower, because I love running, independent of racing.

--Dave
Shoebacca
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 2:31PM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Arthritis is real. Lots of aliments in older runners are real.

But I don't think that's the problem for veteran runners. I think veteran runners are both blessed and cursed by consistency. If you're masters and churning out decent mileage every week, it becomes extremely tempting for the running volume itself to be the end goal. You just want to keep your body doing this volume of work as your indication of fitness. For many the weekly training becomes more important than race times.

It's at this point that a veteran runner becomes blinded to the fact that some days/weeks you just need different recovery sometimes. And if you're running 70mpw then you think maybe you'll recover just fine going down to 50mpw. Okay, so that's less, but in a sport all about repetitive stress you're still doing 50 miles of whatever was already making you feel crappy! Get some real and different recovery than just running and you might bounce back better than you think. Don't be a slave to the mileage; you aren't going to die because you took a week easy.
northwest master
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 3:18PM - in reply to once a jogger Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Once-a-jogger

My 10+ years as a Mid Distance Masters runner has been a decade of changing my tactics in training. 40-44 I could run the 70 - 90 weeks pretty routine without much "twinging" of the joints and muscles. Since hitting 45 and now 50, discovering a good mix of cross training to supplement an afternoon or early morning run helps keep me from being to beat up. With that said - I currently have a knee (inflamed) that limits my harder efforts. Working thru it though.

Dave gives some good advice on hitting the gym for strength training.

If I miss a day now because of work - I don't worry about it. Probably needed a rest day anyways.

Cheers

yNoT
once a jogger
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 7:02PM - in reply to northwest master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Lots of good info here. thanks again.
the average male runner
RE: How difficult is it to run high mileage as a masters runner? 5/25/2012 7:06PM - in reply to dhaaga Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

dhaaga wrote:

hard to say what in particular useful in weight routine b/c I've grafted lots onto it to deal with piriformis, achilles, hamstring stuff, etc. etc., but a few examples (almost all machines, not free weights)

lat pulldowns
calf raises on leg press machine
4-way hip machine
rotary torso
3 or 4 that deal in one way or another with abs and back
pullup apparatus

i am blanking on the name for some reason, but probably most specific to knee is the one where i'm sitting and facing forward,and feet curled under me a bit -- lift up against resistance to straighten both legs in front of me -- for quads

It's not weights per se, but when I'm doing weights I also do a floor exercise with a big stability ball which is

30 X lying face up, feet up on ball, lift whole body from shoulders down to make a straight line and hold for 5-count

30 X same as first thing but instead of holding it, bend knees to roll the ball toward your butt, and return.

----------------------

re the post asking us all about race benefits from higher mileage. Don't know since I've always been very gradually increasing over the years (since return to serious running in late 30's after 10 years or so of maintenance exercise and little racing). I stayed the same or got faster from 37 to about 48 y.o. and matched or bettered my college/graduate school times for 5k to marathon [not as fast mile or 2 mile], and have been deteriorating past two years.

I would run a lot (by my standards) regardless of race results, unless I had good reason to believe it was making me much slower, because I love running, independent of racing.

--Dave



its called leg extension at my gym, and those hip/torso exercises sound like good ones. Ever since 40 my hips and hammies have been super tight.
Pages: | 1 | 2 |