Long singles (1:30:00) every day?

I don't know man, I think trying to do that every week is kind of ridiculous for cross, and I can imagine you coming into the season pretty stale. What I like to do is give myself a milage goal, and the average milage/day needed to hit the goal, and then try to have a couple days that are ahead of the average, so that I can have a couple days behind the average and work some rest days into my week. Even though it's base training, those rest days are important. Even when you're running 100 mile weeks, sometimes you need to run two 20 milers during the week so that you can give yourself an easy day. I think that is the key to doing it all in singles. 13 every day with 20 once a week is very tough, try 3 15's and 2 10's some weeks. Find a way to do it that works, but doing the same thing every week you're bound to get stale.

Sounds almost exactly like Lydiard base training to me. You need to add a 20-30 minute 'shake-out' run, though. Good Luck!

Read "Running with the Buffaloes". Wetmore had his guys maxing out on 1 a day runs. He has had some success with this. Lydiard based approach.

I've worked full time while training like that, and I always always always found it much less stressful to double the mileage. Going early in the morning makes you feel pretty good througout the day and that way you don't need to tackle a whole 90 minutes every evening.

Doing double is just much less stressful in my opinion.

I had success with this approach during the past track season. I would double a maximum of one time per week, and still log 90-95 miles per week. I did not do a long run of 20 miles every week though - doing a longer run every day seemed good enough.

Link wrote:

Sounds almost exactly like Lydiard base training to me. You need to add a 20-30 minute 'shake-out' run, though. Good Luck!

1) I suspect this is a troll. Okay, you got me. That said:

2) Lydiard's base training is NOT the same thing every day. He advocated a mix of distances (or times of running) and paces; and some of his athletes' standard routes were (much) hillier, others less hilly.

3) As Link suggests, Lydiard did indeed advocate at least one other run (on most days), run at an easy pace (to "shake out"). Though Lydiard did not include this in his mileage totals, Snell is on record as having counted "every step" when totaling *his* mileage.

4) Snell has also mentioned, in one of his interviews, that if he were to do it over again he'd probably include a set of quarters once a week in base phase, just to preserve his turnover skill. Running as long as a quarter may not be needed, but it would probably be helpful, once or twice a week, for a person to throw occasional 30-60sec pickups into an otherwise-easy-paced run, with a few minutes' easy running between reps (so that the pickups are skill builders/maintainers and not "wind sprints").

5) For almost all runners, getting your mileage via doubles is less stressful than doing it with singles, BUT

a) different things do work for different people, and

b) if trying to squeeze in a second session, with all the added prep/shower/changing time, would mean a hectic schedule and shorting your recovery (esp. sleep time), then it's prob. just not worth it.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing, OP. Please get back to us some time and let us know how it's going.

40 hour weeks really isn't that much work. You can easily wake up 30 minutes earlier and get a 20 minute run in every morning.

I just graduated and finished my collegiate eligibility 1 year ago just started a full time job (45ish hrs a week) and thought it would be a good idea to run 100+ in singles with a long run of 20-22 each week to save time. I was running about 120 a week while in school with about 85-90 in singles. The program started off great and I was able to maintain the program for 12 weeks. However I noticed when I began to taper for mid April race, I began to feel stale and worn out.

I don't recommend the jump to singles unless you are able to run them before work. I didn't feel like I got the same benefit after a full day in the office. I was just too drained when I got home. I also noticed I gained about 5 pounds despite the increase in singles mileage. I have since reincorporated doubles into my schedule, adding 20-30 min runs in the morning to total 100ish miles and have lost the 5 lbs again without any discernible diet changes.

You have to shower in the morning anyway - like the poster above said, why not just get a 20-30 minute run in?

That being said -

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=23257

Not sure why you think I'm a troll. I know that Lydiard recommended different distances, that's why I said almost exactly. I don't think Lydiard recommended different paces - or at least he didn't recommend much variation in effort during base training. Different days same effort might equal different paces.To the OP, if you don't have any other obligations, or, a really long commute, 40 hrs/wk is no barrier to training as much as your body will allow. I'm with others on here who recommend doubles, but 100 miles/wk in singles is not that tough to do, so long as you allow yourself some latitude in pace when you're especially tired. Also, don't make 100/wk some sort of magical goal. I like what Don Kardong once said about 100 miles/week. He said 'sure 100 is a round number, but 88 is even rounder' or something close to it. Just make sure you get plenty of sleep, food and water. Finally, don't worry about staleness. George Young said the only staleness is death. I'm with him.

Link wrote:

Not sure why you think I'm a troll. I know that Lydiard recommended different distances, that's why I said almost exactly. I don't think Lydiard recommended different paces - or at least he didn't recommend much variation in effort during base training. Different days same effort might equal different paces.

Sorry for my slightly-pissy previous post. I gave away my running library a few years ago, so no longer have Lydiard books to quote from, but he certainly looked for different paces (though he typically referred to "effort") on different days in the buildup period.

I was able to find an interesting article online that, at least glancingly, refers to different effort levels in Lydiard's training week(s) during the buildup:

And here's another pretty good one (

) that includes material from the original "Run to the Top" that sounds familiar:

"Monday: 10M, hilly course, half-effort

"Tuesday: 15M easier course, quarter-effort, undulating not dead-flat

"Wednesday: 12M fartlek

"Thursday: 18M easier course, quarter effort

"Friday: 10M fast over a flat course, three-quarter effort

"Saturday: 20-30M, easy course, quarter-effort

"Sunday: 15M easy, quarter-effort"

The article continues with a pretty good discussion of what AL meant by the different effort levels he stated. In any case, we can see the diffferent distances, paces/"efforts," and terrains that AL advocated.

I'm going on at such length because many people think that Lydiard was just a pack-in-the-slow-miles guy during base training. He actually spoke more of a "buildup" than of a base (as the first article I linked to discusses), and he was emphatically in favor of avoiding any phase with all- (or mostly-)one-speed running.

Cheers--

lease

OP here: About the guy who said he felt "stale" - I actually had tested a scaled down version of my plan out for outdoor track (10-12 mi/day in singles) and found that my best races were the ones where I didn't taper for 1+ weeks at all. Interesting.

So from what I'm gathering, doing singles EVERY day may have some negative results, but I still think some longer runs could be beneficial. So here is a modified sample week plan, what do you think?

Mon: Medium long run 14 based off feel

Tues: Easy double 9/5

Weds: Some sort of tempo/threshold/long hills - 11

Thurs: Medium long run 14 based off feel

Fri: Recovery double 9/5

Sat: Long run, 20 miles progressing the last 4-5

Sun: Recovery double 9/5

Total: 100 miles

Strides/drills/core 3x per week

singlelife wrote:

So from what I'm gathering, doing singles EVERY day may have some negative results, but I still think some longer runs could be beneficial. So here is a modified sample week plan, what do you think?

Mon: Medium long run 14 based off feel

Tues: Easy double 9/5

Weds: Some sort of tempo/threshold/long hills - 11

Thurs: Medium long run 14 based off feel

Fri: Recovery double 9/5

Sat: Long run, 20 miles progressing the last 4-5

Sun: Recovery double 9/5

Total: 100 miles

Strides/drills/core 3x per week

Looks solid. Good luck!

Yeah, that's the way you want it

I focused on long singles during club XC last year & got into damn good shape:

M 60min + weights, core, drills

T 130min

W 130min + 30min pm run

Th 130min

F 60min + weights, core, drills

S 130min (or race) + 30min pm run

S 190+ long run

I went by how I felt during the W or Th run as to whether I would do a "workout" for the week - usually just did a 30-40min tempo (T), or 6-8 X 5min tempo pace w/1min recovery jog. and every day (or almost every day) I would do some sort of hill work during the run (6-8 x 80m hill, 6-8 x strides on footbal field, etc.) to stay sharp and work on my efficiency.

as a post collegiate, I've become less worried about actual miles and more focused on time on my feet with my heart rate up. if i run for 130min and I go 14 miles, great. if i run 130min and only go 12 miles, great too - if i'm feeling tired & can only run a certain pace, I figure my body is trying to say "i need a bit of a break today, lets's keep the pace down". thus I stop at 130min, as opposed to cranking out another 14min+ just to hit some stupid mileage goal (which would only make me feel more tired/sh*tty and accumulate fatigue that would carry over to the next session).

one more thing - IMO, 40+ hours a week shouldn't impose much of a time constraint. i was doing this as a grad student working 7 days a week, 55+ hours/week. if you want to be good, you'll find the time to put the work in.

Barry Magee told me that in his early days with Lydiard he was running 100 mpw in one run and it made him a national class runner. Later, he added a second daily run of 20-30 minutes and he said that's when he became an international class runner. If you really want to be as good as possible, you'd do well to find a half hour or so somewhere, before work, lunch, before bed, and get in that second run.

BUT, 90-100 is very respectable mileage and you should be able to run well doing a 90 or so minute run each day. George Sheehan used to say that the best form of exercise is the one you'll actually do so if the routine you're suggesting is what will fit best into your work life and keep you training consistently then it may be best for you even if it's not ideal for everyone.

get ready to join josh mcdougal in the paralyzed leg ward.

Colin Eustis is the master of this

I've done 140+ on singles and averaged over 100mpw for several months straight with almost entirely singles (I only went to doubles when I wanted a 160+ week). If you are not super injury prone, 100mpw on singles isn't bad.