Pages: | 1 | 2 |
benji4:35
Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 1:06PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I posted a while ago about breaking 4:30 but had to take a week off for a class trip to Chicago. I've been getting back into things now and last week I ran 4:44 twice with no competition and 20 mph winds.
Tuesday I ran a hard workout of
6x(400, 60 rest, 200, 60 rest)
66,67,62,68,67,65 (on the 62 I was racing a car)
31,32,32,34,33,31

What do you think I can run for 1600 tonight?
Flagpole
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 1:24PM - in reply to benji4:35 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

benji4:35 wrote:

I posted a while ago about breaking 4:30 but had to take a week off for a class trip to Chicago. I've been getting back into things now and last week I ran 4:44 twice with no competition and 20 mph winds.
Tuesday I ran a hard workout of
6x(400, 60 rest, 200, 60 rest)
66,67,62,68,67,65 (on the 62 I was racing a car)
31,32,32,34,33,31

What do you think I can run for 1600 tonight?


1) Don't blame performances on the wind. One of my best races on a track ever came on a windy day.

2) I'll say that you should get better though and will run 4:39.
Archimedes
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 3:15PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Flagpole wrote:


1) Don't blame performances on the wind. One of my best races on a track ever came on a windy day.


That is absolutely ridiculous. Wind slows you down, no matter what, excluding sprints. You may have had a great race, but your time could have been faster.

On topic, I'll say 4:35 assuming you've recovered from your workout. Good luck.
quit
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 3:20PM - in reply to Archimedes Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Go out for golf next year
riley stops
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 3:47PM - in reply to quit Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Be happy with any improvement. Getting under 4:40 would be great.
HS Senior
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 4:17PM - in reply to riley stops Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
(THTW)
i'd say about 4:40, maybe 4:38. Go out in 68
Idontevenknow
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 4:21PM - in reply to benji4:35 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

benji4:35 wrote:

I posted a while ago about breaking 4:30 but had to take a week off for a class trip to Chicago. I've been getting back into things now and last week I ran 4:44 twice with no competition and 20 mph winds.
Tuesday I ran a hard workout of
6x(400, 60 rest, 200, 60 rest)
66,67,62,68,67,65 (on the 62 I was racing a car)
31,32,32,34,33,31

What do you think I can run for 1600 tonight?


Okay, you didn't HAVE to take a week off...

Over spring break, I went on a mission trip to Miami where I had to get up 2 hours earlier than everyone else to go run in the parking lot of the church we were staying at. There's no excuse for taking a week completely off in the middle of the season. Even if the teachers (or whoever was leading it) didn't allow you to run, I'm sure your coach could have worked something out with them.
webfoot
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 4:36PM - in reply to benji4:35 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You can run in the mid 4:30s with a good effort and if it isn't too windy.

Do you have a teammate who can pace you for 800?
Kanye North
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 6:31PM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

webfoot wrote:
Do you have a teammate who can pace you for 800?


Don't let Flagpole read this. He will not be happy
gallen
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/10/2012 7:11PM - in reply to benji4:35 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
2/10

Racing a car while doing a 400?
Flagpole
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 7:30AM - in reply to Archimedes Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Of course it does, but we can't always get perfect days. When you see a list of PRs run by high school or college kids, you don't know if it was windy that day or perfect or what. Your PR is what your PR is, you don't get to say "my PR is 4:21 for the mile, but it was windy that day".

The reason you don't blame sub-par performances on the weather is three-fold.

1) If you blame it afterwards, you'll blame it beforehand, and that might actually lead to more problems than the wind itself.

2) Sometimes it is windy but not necessarily when your race was being run or down on the track. I've seen windy days were it was pretty sheltered on the track by the stadium. I've also seen others give a windy day out to someone with a poor performance only to know that it wasn't windy when that person was running...the wind rolled in later.

3) No one likes an excuse maker. #1 and #3 in this list are really the main ones.


Archimedes wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:


1) Don't blame performances on the wind. One of my best races on a track ever came on a windy day.


That is absolutely ridiculous. Wind slows you down, no matter what, excluding sprints. You may have had a great race, but your time could have been faster.

On topic, I'll say 4:35 assuming you've recovered from your workout. Good luck.[/quote]
webfoot
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 9:26AM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You don't have a clue. You changed the topic of this thread to an issue that exists only in your own mind. You are obsessed with being an authority, so you redefine the topic to fit your needs.

On top of that you do not have personal experience. I highly doubt you ever approached mid 4:30s yourself. Combined with your flawed thinking about racing in general I think you should stop dispensing running advice.

If it was possible to go back in time and transplant my brain into your HS body, you would have run 10 seconds faster in the mile and 20 seconds faster in the 2 mile. In addition your teammates would not have despised you for dragging down the morale of the team.



Flagpole wrote:

Of course it does, but we can't always get perfect days. When you see a list of PRs run by high school or college kids, you don't know if it was windy that day or perfect or what. Your PR is what your PR is, you don't get to say "my PR is 4:21 for the mile, but it was windy that day".

The reason you don't blame sub-par performances on the weather is three-fold.

1) If you blame it afterwards, you'll blame it beforehand, and that might actually lead to more problems than the wind itself.

2) Sometimes it is windy but not necessarily when your race was being run or down on the track. I've seen windy days were it was pretty sheltered on the track by the stadium. I've also seen others give a windy day out to someone with a poor performance only to know that it wasn't windy when that person was running...the wind rolled in later.

3) No one likes an excuse maker. #1 and #3 in this list are really the main ones.


a high school coach
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 9:45AM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Worry less about time and more about winning the race. Unfortunately, there seems to be way too much emphasis amongst high schoolers about time concerns, when competing is what it should really be about. Get out there, do your best, try to win, and the times will take care of themselves.
Flagpole
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 9:47AM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ah dude, you're hilarious. Good to know that you can decipher my PRs and my high school team morale from almost 30 years ago. I will give you this though...you probably could have knocked even more off my times than that even, because when I ran, it was before a ton of training advice was had on the internet, and we had to go with what our coaches told us. I ran 15:48 for 5k and 9:48 for 3200 on about 15 miles a week with hardly any running in the summer. Less is more was the common order of the day in the early-mid 80s. Only a handful of high school coaches knew what they were talking about then, and I went to two different high schools, and all the distance coaches at both schools had a less is more attitude, telling us to "rest up" on the weekends and during the summer.

If you want to take issue with someone who is advising to not give an excuse to every weather situation, then so be it brother. Maybe it will be too hot or too cold or too rainy or a high pressure system or whatever. We can find a million reasons why we did poorly on any given day. "Windy" doesn't do it for me. HOW windy? Gale force winds or gusts of 15 MPH? Makes a difference. Complainers note ANY problem. Winners don't complain.


webfoot wrote:

You don't have a clue. You changed the topic of this thread to an issue that exists only in your own mind. You are obsessed with being an authority, so you redefine the topic to fit your needs.

On top of that you do not have personal experience. I highly doubt you ever approached mid 4:30s yourself. Combined with your flawed thinking about racing in general I think you should stop dispensing running advice.

If it was possible to go back in time and transplant my brain into your HS body, you would have run 10 seconds faster in the mile and 20 seconds faster in the 2 mile. In addition your teammates would not have despised you for dragging down the morale of the team.


[quote]Flagpole wrote:

Of course it does, but we can't always get perfect days. When you see a list of PRs run by high school or college kids, you don't know if it was windy that day or perfect or what. Your PR is what your PR is, you don't get to say "my PR is 4:21 for the mile, but it was windy that day".

The reason you don't blame sub-par performances on the weather is three-fold.

1) If you blame it afterwards, you'll blame it beforehand, and that might actually lead to more problems than the wind itself.

2) Sometimes it is windy but not necessarily when your race was being run or down on the track. I've seen windy days were it was pretty sheltered on the track by the stadium. I've also seen others give a windy day out to someone with a poor performance only to know that it wasn't windy when that person was running...the wind rolled in later.

3) No one likes an excuse maker. #1 and #3 in this list are really the main ones.


[/quote]
Flagpole
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 9:51AM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oh yeah, and I've run faster than mid 4:30s on a windy day too! Yeah me!


webfoot wrote:

You don't have a clue. You changed the topic of this thread to an issue that exists only in your own mind. You are obsessed with being an authority, so you redefine the topic to fit your needs.

On top of that you do not have personal experience. I highly doubt you ever approached mid 4:30s yourself. Combined with your flawed thinking about racing in general I think you should stop dispensing running advice.

If it was possible to go back in time and transplant my brain into your HS body, you would have run 10 seconds faster in the mile and 20 seconds faster in the 2 mile. In addition your teammates would not have despised you for dragging down the morale of the team.


[quote]Flagpole wrote:

Of course it does, but we can't always get perfect days. When you see a list of PRs run by high school or college kids, you don't know if it was windy that day or perfect or what. Your PR is what your PR is, you don't get to say "my PR is 4:21 for the mile, but it was windy that day".

The reason you don't blame sub-par performances on the weather is three-fold.

1) If you blame it afterwards, you'll blame it beforehand, and that might actually lead to more problems than the wind itself.

2) Sometimes it is windy but not necessarily when your race was being run or down on the track. I've seen windy days were it was pretty sheltered on the track by the stadium. I've also seen others give a windy day out to someone with a poor performance only to know that it wasn't windy when that person was running...the wind rolled in later.

3) No one likes an excuse maker. #1 and #3 in this list are really the main ones.


[/quote]
webfoot
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 9:53AM - in reply to a high school coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Agree 75%. Time is an objective way to measure improvement and evaluate training. If a runner is head and shoulders above the competition then times will not take care of themselves, because the runner will only rise to the level of competition.

Nothing wrong with an occasional focus to maximise a runner's chance to get a good time.


a high school coach wrote:

Worry less about time and more about winning the race. Unfortunately, there seems to be way too much emphasis amongst high schoolers about time concerns, when competing is what it should really be about. Get out there, do your best, try to win, and the times will take care of themselves.
webfoot
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 10:06AM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Now look who is making excuses. You are blaming your coaches and your own ignorance.

I also graduated in the early 1980s. In HS had a different coach every year, two with no experience or knowledge coaching runners. One coach wanted us to stay indoors and play basketball whenever it rained (in Oregon).

Became friends with other good hish school runners in the Portland area and learned what it takes to improve. I was always repectful to coaches and did their workouts, but mornings and weekends belonged to me so I was able to train an improve.

In HS you should have been more inquisitive.


Flagpole wrote:

Ah dude, you're hilarious. Good to know that you can decipher my PRs and my high school team morale from almost 30 years ago. I will give you this though...you probably could have knocked even more off my times than that even, because when I ran, it was before a ton of training advice was had on the internet, and we had to go with what our coaches told us. I ran 15:48 for 5k and 9:48 for 3200 on about 15 miles a week with hardly any running in the summer. Less is more was the common order of the day in the early-mid 80s. Only a handful of high school coaches knew what they were talking about then, and I went to two different high schools, and all the distance coaches at both schools had a less is more attitude, telling us to "rest up" on the weekends and during the summer.
Science!
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 10:13AM - in reply to benji4:35 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So, what'd you run Benji?
Mojo Jerkin
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 10:47AM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
[quote]Flagpole wrote:

Ah dude, you're hilarious. Good to know that you can decipher my PRs and my high school team morale from almost 30 years ago. I will give you this though...you probably could have knocked even more off my times than that even, because when I ran, it was before a ton of training advice was had on the internet, and we had to go with what our coaches told us. I ran 15:48 for 5k and 9:48 for 3200 on about 15 miles a week with hardly any running in the summer. Less is more was the common order of the day in the early-mid 80s. Only a handful of high school coaches knew what they were talking about then, and I went to two different high schools, and all the distance coaches at both schools had a less is more attitude, telling us to "rest up" on the weekends and during the summer.

If you want to take issue with someone who is advising to not give an excuse to every weather situation, then so be it brother. Maybe it will be too hot or too cold or too rainy or a high pressure system or whatever. We can find a million reasons why we did poorly on any given day. "Windy" doesn't do it for me. HOW windy? Gale force winds or gusts of 15 MPH? Makes a difference. Complainers note ANY problem. Winners don't complain.



Flagpole, but you can't tell a kid to not make excuses for his time because of the weather, and then go an make excuses because you didn't train appropriately. There was a race, you ran a time, that is it, no excuses.
Flagpole
RE: Freshman 1600 Sub-4:35? 5/11/2012 11:49AM - in reply to Mojo Jerkin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You make an awesome point, but just to defend a bit, I'm not making excuses. The spirit of what I was doing there was giving credit to the opinion of another poster (for I always do that for other posters even if they are always against me). It is LIKELY that I might have run faster had I run 60 or more MPW and actually trained in the summer, but I can't know that, and so I don't use my small amount of training as an excuse...just clarity.

BUT, to be fair, as far as a good point, you certainly have one.


Mojo Jerkin wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:

Ah dude, you're hilarious. Good to know that you can decipher my PRs and my high school team morale from almost 30 years ago. I will give you this though...you probably could have knocked even more off my times than that even, because when I ran, it was before a ton of training advice was had on the internet, and we had to go with what our coaches told us. I ran 15:48 for 5k and 9:48 for 3200 on about 15 miles a week with hardly any running in the summer. Less is more was the common order of the day in the early-mid 80s. Only a handful of high school coaches knew what they were talking about then, and I went to two different high schools, and all the distance coaches at both schools had a less is more attitude, telling us to "rest up" on the weekends and during the summer.

If you want to take issue with someone who is advising to not give an excuse to every weather situation, then so be it brother. Maybe it will be too hot or too cold or too rainy or a high pressure system or whatever. We can find a million reasons why we did poorly on any given day. "Windy" doesn't do it for me. HOW windy? Gale force winds or gusts of 15 MPH? Makes a difference. Complainers note ANY problem. Winners don't complain.



Flagpole, but you can't tell a kid to not make excuses for his time because of the weather, and then go an make excuses because you didn't train appropriately. There was a race, you ran a time, that is it, no excuses.
Pages: | 1 | 2 |