reckless runner
Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 12:48PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
OK, here's the situation: In a medium-profile marathon near me, there is also a 10k. Pretty common set-up. Unlike most events I've seen, though, they're not starting them separately. There is one mass start, and the races are on the same course for a 10k loop, before the marathon goes off for another 32.2k.

There is usually a contingent of pretty decent runners in the marathon, some local and a pile of east Africans, and when I've watched as a spectator I've seen that there was still a big pack when they came through the 10k mark. I'm talking like 15-20 guys. It really is impressive to seem them sail through.

So, my plan for this year is to tuck in behind this juggernaut and hold on for dear life. I figure the marathon is going to be won in around 2:15, with most of the top 10 finishing in more like 2:20. With my 10k PR of around 33 flat, IF they go out conservatively AND I have a good day, I think MAYBE I can run the whole 10k with them without getting dropped.

If they end up going out quicker, though, I'm not going to let go. I am fully committed to this and will be running as long as I can with them, even if they are dropping my 3,000 pace from the gun. Realistically, I figure at worst they will start out doing my 5k pace from the gun.

Which brings me to my original question: What is going to happen to me if I try to run a 10k doing the first 5k about 15 seconds per mile faster than my 10k pace? I train pretty hard, but of course I have never raced an honest 5k and then had to get through 5k more. My goal here obviously isn't time (this is a hilly course, anyway, and likely to be very hot), but of course I'd rather not pass out. I have been planning this for a while, but have been recently having visions of the YouTube video with the guy completely bonking on the home stretch of a track 10,000.

Anyone done something like this? I'm thinking some people with an XC background must have got in over their heads a time or two.

I know I'm not fast, and I know that running a quarter of a marathon and someone else's marathon pace is nothing to brag about. This is really just for me to experience running in a pack of fairly elite runners. As a masters guy with a background in another sport, I have no delusions of grandeur here.
Blowing.Rock Master
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:12PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I ran my 10K PR doing that, though it was in 1986 before every other race was a 5k. Hit 5K in 16:09 (PR), 5 miles in 26:27 (PR), and 10K in 32:50. I lowered my 5K PR after that but never broke 16:00.

By the way, 33:00 as a masters runner is fast.

I say go for it! What do you have to lose?
(&%^GYVUI
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:31PM - in reply to Blowing.Rock Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A long time ago in a place far far away, one cold winter I ran 6 miles most mornings before it got light, worked construction all day and ran 8 more miles after it got dark. I knew I was in great shape but I didn't know how great. On March 30th I ran a 10 mile race. I went through 3 miles in exactly my PR time. While I didn't hold that pace, I did take 6 minutes off my, admittedly soft, 10 mile PR.

That being said, they are going to know you are not running the marathon right? Your number is going to be a different color or something isn't it? Further they will all be roughly half your age. I don't get it.
reckless runner
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:36PM - in reply to Blowing.Rock Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Encouraging! That must have been a pretty great day!

My 5k PR is just over 16, and I'm pretty sure I don't have much more improvement on that at this point...

My 33:10 10k went pretty even, 16:50/16:40, and I was completely wrecked after. I'm pretty fit right now and probably good for 16:10-16:15 in a actual 5k, but will be in total no-man's land after that.

Of course, it might not even be that quick. Because I do all of my running alone and am usually in no-man's land in local races, just "racing" and not time-trialing against my watch is really appealing...like you say, I've got nothing to lose!
same here
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:40PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I wish i could ran a flat 33 10k....
Anyway, i am yhinking about doing the same for my HM this weekend. But going out at 10k PR speed. Ran 37min on a hilly 10k this weekend so i fígure i can maintain that kind of speed for 21k..Besides its not a target competition so if i blow up it doesnt matter...
ba-jing-a-gin-a-ling
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:40PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If you can run 33:10 you can run under 16.
edumacator
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 1:47PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I think you might be ok, while the pace will no doubt be too fast for you, it'll be made easier by the fact that:

1. They will likely not sprint out the first 400m like many 5k-10k road races, allowing you to ease into your pace. I've seen a lot of African 2:14-2:17 types run the first mile of a marathon in 5:20 before picking it up to 5:05-5:10.

2. You should have a perfect drafting scenario from start to finish, which usually doesn't happen.

Either you'll run great or you'll have a really amusing anecdote to tell the kids, sounds win win.
THIS IS WHAT I DID
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 4:19PM - in reply to edumacator Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I ran a half-marathon last year after a really crappy spring racing season.

The fastest 5K I ran during the season was 16:10. I got hurt and had to take a month off and then tried to race my way back into shape. (27:35 8K, 35:15 10K, 76:00 HM)

I kept on training hard and hopped in a half-marathon at the end of the year. Came through 5K in 16:20. Then PR'd for 5 miles (26:35), 10K (33:20), and 10-mile (55:00) en route to a 2 minute PR in the half. (bonked hard last 5K, came in right under 73 minutes)
Keith Stone
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 5:08PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

reckless runner wrote:Anyone done something like this?
I was within a few seconds of a 5K PR after the bridge at Cooper River. Meaning I'd hauled my ass up the bridge in under 5K PR time. The downhill saved me a bit, but the wheels came off big time at 5 miles, and it was like dragging an anchor wearing cement shoes the last 1/2 mile. Missed the 10K PR I was trying to get by a good 40 seconds.

Once you go negative, you ain't comin' back.
mitchellmac2
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/10/2012 11:45PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've heard that billy mills went through 5k one second slower than his PR in the 5k when he ran the 10000m at the Tokyo games
reckless runner
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/11/2012 7:40AM - in reply to edumacator Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

edumacator wrote:

I think you might be ok, while the pace will no doubt be too fast for you, it'll be made easier by the fact that:

1. They will likely not sprint out the first 400m like many 5k-10k road races, allowing you to ease into your pace. I've seen a lot of African 2:14-2:17 types run the first mile of a marathon in 5:20 before picking it up to 5:05-5:10.

2. You should have a perfect drafting scenario from start to finish, which usually doesn't happen.

Either you'll run great or you'll have a really amusing anecdote to tell the kids, sounds win win.


Thanks for the thoughts. I am really hoping for a reasonable first mile. There's a bit of downhill in the second so I should be OK until at least 3k - then it will get crazy. But definitely, I'll be looking for a sweet drafting set-up!

Thanks for the positive and realistic responses. Will let you guys know what happens.
asdasd
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/11/2012 10:26AM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Yep, entered a track 10k with a PR of around 14:40. Came through the 5k in about 14:35. Felt good and hung on for a 29:20. However, in all my years running and racing I've only had one other race where I felt as good. Everything went near perfect.
Billy Mills.
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/11/2012 10:40AM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I ran a PR through 5k of this track 10k once, and it ended up working out pretty well. I say go for it!
AK-54
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/11/2012 11:56AM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Twice, when I was quite young.

My best 5000 as a college soph was 16:15 and over the summer I ran a big (for then) 10K on the roads and went through 3 miles in 15:40 and held on for 32:50.

A few years later I had just run a PR 15:28 5K, and a week later ran a 10K with the first 5K in 15:34 (slight elevation drop) and returned to finish in 31:48.

Otherwise I tended to do better with even splits.
SaucyNuggett
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/11/2012 12:05PM - in reply to reckless runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My 5k pr last spring was 1453. A month after I set that, I went out through the first 5k of a 10k in 1505 and followed through the next 5k with a solid 1623 (sarcasm). It depends how long ago you were in your 5k shape and how much of a 'strength hog' you are.
runasfastasucanforaslongasucan
RE: Ever open a 10k with your *honest* 5k PR? How did it go? 5/13/2012 6:56PM - in reply to SaucyNuggett Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I always loved going out hard and sucking O2. I was a pretty reckless runner one year, because I was having an off year in track, the coaches put me into everything from 800m to 10k. Hard to stay focused on your training. I went down South for springbreak and ran a 31:00/10k one week and the next week ran 30:22 on a hillier course(both USATF cert). Right after track, headed over to Cleveland and ran the 10k there. Nice out and back course then. Went out in 4:25/9:12(9:05indoor 2-mile PR)/13:55/14:275k(14:22 on track)/19:02/24:05/29:54/10KPR. Different course than what they run today. I remember running across a bridge.