| reckless runner |
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OK, here's the situation: In a medium-profile marathon near me, there is also a 10k. Pretty common set-up. Unlike most events I've seen, though, they're not starting them separately. There is one mass start, and the races are on the same course for a 10k loop, before the marathon goes off for another 32.2k. There is usually a contingent of pretty decent runners in the marathon, some local and a pile of east Africans, and when I've watched as a spectator I've seen that there was still a big pack when they came through the 10k mark. I'm talking like 15-20 guys. It really is impressive to seem them sail through. So, my plan for this year is to tuck in behind this juggernaut and hold on for dear life. I figure the marathon is going to be won in around 2:15, with most of the top 10 finishing in more like 2:20. With my 10k PR of around 33 flat, IF they go out conservatively AND I have a good day, I think MAYBE I can run the whole 10k with them without getting dropped. If they end up going out quicker, though, I'm not going to let go. I am fully committed to this and will be running as long as I can with them, even if they are dropping my 3,000 pace from the gun. Realistically, I figure at worst they will start out doing my 5k pace from the gun. Which brings me to my original question: What is going to happen to me if I try to run a 10k doing the first 5k about 15 seconds per mile faster than my 10k pace? I train pretty hard, but of course I have never raced an honest 5k and then had to get through 5k more. My goal here obviously isn't time (this is a hilly course, anyway, and likely to be very hot), but of course I'd rather not pass out. I have been planning this for a while, but have been recently having visions of the YouTube video with the guy completely bonking on the home stretch of a track 10,000. Anyone done something like this? I'm thinking some people with an XC background must have got in over their heads a time or two. I know I'm not fast, and I know that running a quarter of a marathon and someone else's marathon pace is nothing to brag about. This is really just for me to experience running in a pack of fairly elite runners. As a masters guy with a background in another sport, I have no delusions of grandeur here. |
| Blowing.Rock Master |
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I ran my 10K PR doing that, though it was in 1986 before every other race was a 5k. Hit 5K in 16:09 (PR), 5 miles in 26:27 (PR), and 10K in 32:50. I lowered my 5K PR after that but never broke 16:00. By the way, 33:00 as a masters runner is fast. I say go for it! What do you have to lose? |
| (&%^GYVUI |
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A long time ago in a place far far away, one cold winter I ran 6 miles most mornings before it got light, worked construction all day and ran 8 more miles after it got dark. I knew I was in great shape but I didn't know how great. On March 30th I ran a 10 mile race. I went through 3 miles in exactly my PR time. While I didn't hold that pace, I did take 6 minutes off my, admittedly soft, 10 mile PR. That being said, they are going to know you are not running the marathon right? Your number is going to be a different color or something isn't it? Further they will all be roughly half your age. I don't get it. |
| reckless runner |
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Encouraging! That must have been a pretty great day! My 5k PR is just over 16, and I'm pretty sure I don't have much more improvement on that at this point... My 33:10 10k went pretty even, 16:50/16:40, and I was completely wrecked after. I'm pretty fit right now and probably good for 16:10-16:15 in a actual 5k, but will be in total no-man's land after that. Of course, it might not even be that quick. Because I do all of my running alone and am usually in no-man's land in local races, just "racing" and not time-trialing against my watch is really appealing...like you say, I've got nothing to lose! |
| same here |
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I wish i could ran a flat 33 10k.... Anyway, i am yhinking about doing the same for my HM this weekend. But going out at 10k PR speed. Ran 37min on a hilly 10k this weekend so i fígure i can maintain that kind of speed for 21k..Besides its not a target competition so if i blow up it doesnt matter... |
| ba-jing-a-gin-a-ling |
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If you can run 33:10 you can run under 16. |
| edumacator |
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I think you might be ok, while the pace will no doubt be too fast for you, it'll be made easier by the fact that: 1. They will likely not sprint out the first 400m like many 5k-10k road races, allowing you to ease into your pace. I've seen a lot of African 2:14-2:17 types run the first mile of a marathon in 5:20 before picking it up to 5:05-5:10. 2. You should have a perfect drafting scenario from start to finish, which usually doesn't happen. Either you'll run great or you'll have a really amusing anecdote to tell the kids, sounds win win. |
| THIS IS WHAT I DID |
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I ran a half-marathon last year after a really crappy spring racing season. The fastest 5K I ran during the season was 16:10. I got hurt and had to take a month off and then tried to race my way back into shape. (27:35 8K, 35:15 10K, 76:00 HM) I kept on training hard and hopped in a half-marathon at the end of the year. Came through 5K in 16:20. Then PR'd for 5 miles (26:35), 10K (33:20), and 10-mile (55:00) en route to a 2 minute PR in the half. (bonked hard last 5K, came in right under 73 minutes) |
| Keith Stone |
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I was within a few seconds of a 5K PR after the bridge at Cooper River. Meaning I'd hauled my ass up the bridge in under 5K PR time. The downhill saved me a bit, but the wheels came off big time at 5 miles, and it was like dragging an anchor wearing cement shoes the last 1/2 mile. Missed the 10K PR I was trying to get by a good 40 seconds. Once you go negative, you ain't comin' back. |
| mitchellmac2 |
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I've heard that billy mills went through 5k one second slower than his PR in the 5k when he ran the 10000m at the Tokyo games |
| reckless runner |
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Thanks for the thoughts. I am really hoping for a reasonable first mile. There's a bit of downhill in the second so I should be OK until at least 3k - then it will get crazy. But definitely, I'll be looking for a sweet drafting set-up! Thanks for the positive and realistic responses. Will let you guys know what happens. |
| asdasd |
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Yep, entered a track 10k with a PR of around 14:40. Came through the 5k in about 14:35. Felt good and hung on for a 29:20. However, in all my years running and racing I've only had one other race where I felt as good. Everything went near perfect. |
| Billy Mills. |
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I ran a PR through 5k of this track 10k once, and it ended up working out pretty well. I say go for it! |
| AK-54 |
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Twice, when I was quite young. My best 5000 as a college soph was 16:15 and over the summer I ran a big (for then) 10K on the roads and went through 3 miles in 15:40 and held on for 32:50. A few years later I had just run a PR 15:28 5K, and a week later ran a 10K with the first 5K in 15:34 (slight elevation drop) and returned to finish in 31:48. Otherwise I tended to do better with even splits. |
| SaucyNuggett |
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My 5k pr last spring was 1453. A month after I set that, I went out through the first 5k of a 10k in 1505 and followed through the next 5k with a solid 1623 (sarcasm). It depends how long ago you were in your 5k shape and how much of a 'strength hog' you are. |
| runasfastasucanforaslongasucan |
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I always loved going out hard and sucking O2. I was a pretty reckless runner one year, because I was having an off year in track, the coaches put me into everything from 800m to 10k. Hard to stay focused on your training. I went down South for springbreak and ran a 31:00/10k one week and the next week ran 30:22 on a hillier course(both USATF cert). Right after track, headed over to Cleveland and ran the 10k there. Nice out and back course then. Went out in 4:25/9:12(9:05indoor 2-mile PR)/13:55/14:275k(14:22 on track)/19:02/24:05/29:54/10KPR. Different course than what they run today. I remember running across a bridge. |