Steve Holman Once Ran 3:33.60 for 1500m and Finished 14th

break it up wrote:

7:37.52 for 16th place is equally mind-blowing! I remember when Rudy Chapa ran that for the AR in 1979. Only a coupl years before that the World Record was 7:35.

i saw that race. normally good times don't come in college and chappa's performance was outstanding. he and salazar swapped the lead, so chappa got some drafting in. it could have been better.

at the time, it was obvious to me and others that chappa was capable of a world record in the 3 and 5 km. then again, many others were as well.

like all the others on the team, chappa left oregon burnt out. coaching is to blame for the failures and lesser so the success as guys that came to oregon were already at the top in their age brackets.

Kinda of surpise not to see Halie on the list somewhere.

i think the chinese doping program of the 1990's was the best ever seen. they combined the east german testosterone + routine with epo and BANG you've got total dominance.

they were just too blatant and too successful. they learned their lessons and backed off, got the olympic games recently.

but is not dominance of the athlete, it is dominance in sports "medicine".

now, we might be seeing the same thing happening in the Caribbean, a better sports medicine approach? i think so.

just like we saw in finnish distance runners, east german women sprinters, american sprinters, etc. all along the clean guy got screwed royal.

it's still a game of cat and mouse. at the end of the day, we have no way of verifying that any performance is "legit".

maybe they should make everything legal, but be required to say what they are taking. that way, we can learn what is useful and what is dangerous....

check it.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/episodes/doping-for-gold-2/42/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXjbXbMg5yU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyUV8Uugrg

for some reason there is a number of vids on the chinese and epo, just google = china epo doping

longjack wrote:

break it up wrote:

7:37.52 for 16th place is equally mind-blowing! I remember when Rudy Chapa ran that for the AR in 1979. Only a coupl years before that the World Record was 7:35.

i saw that race. normally good times don't come in college and chappa's performance was outstanding. he and salazar swapped the lead, so chappa got some drafting in. it could have been better.

at the time, it was obvious to me and others that chappa was capable of a world record in the 3 and 5 km. then again, many others were as well.

like all the others on the team, chappa left oregon burnt out. coaching is to blame for the failures and lesser so the success as guys that came to oregon were already at the top in their age brackets.

...The dark unspoken secret that was the Dellinger meat-grinder Era.

You're comments are spot on, except for the fact that you can't remember how to spell "Chapa." But, you clearly were close enough to know something of the behind the scenes in those days...

Evidently, one of the reasons for the falling out between Bowerman and Dellinger, was that Dellinger didn't pay attention to Bowerman's "better to be under-trained than over-trained" prime directive / philosophy...

Wang Junxia ran 2 world records and a #2 all-time from 1500m to 10k in only a few days? She must be the greatest female runner ever!

he said edge wrote:

Cocksedge? Really?

There is an Athlinks result for one David Cocksedge. He may need to step up his racing frequency though.

i do not know much about bowerman, except that he has no basic concept about running fundamentals, as seen in his design of nike running shoes. what a catastrophic impact this guy has had on track, in to form of injuries.

dellinger, though a "nice" guy and probably had good intent never realized what a negative impact his methods had on his runners.

his greatest fault was allowing the athletes to race in training, not monitoring easy days, very amateur. also the team spirit was a joke, an absolute joke.

without a doubt, the oregon legends are seriously flawed.

check it.

I would have made a quicker recovery from breaking my ankle than I did from plantar fasciitis. I got my plantar fasciitis – which lasted for 10 months – from a lifetime of heel-striking due to poor running form. MacDougall builds a compelling case against the running shoe companies who foist new models on us every six months telling us that they are guaranteed to correct our over-pronation, stop us from getting shin splints etc. He details how the incidence of running injuries increased with the introduction of the Nike Cortez in 1972, and how cushioned running shoes encourage heel-striking as opposed to how we should naturally come down on the mid-foot. The shoe companies haven’t disputed these claims and in fact are jumping on the band wagon and designing more minimalist shoes such as the Nike Free.

http://advocatodiabolo.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/have-i-wasted-my-money-on-all-those-asics-kayanos/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html

by the way, i do think the human foot was designed for running bare foot, but it was not necessarily designed for running 100 miles per week. i think shoes for maybe half of your running is ok, the important thing is to get shoes that do not change the natural stride and foot impact. see the articles for details.

bill dellinger however,

What about the race where webb first broke 3:50.

Wasn't he like, 7th or 8th place with is 3:48.xx?

I thought it was one of the deepest mile races in history.

Surely his place would usurp some of those mile times on that list.

Or someone else in the race would.

Chinese women dominated the distance world for a couple years. Yep they got caught doing "funny" things. I believe the article read it was the herbs they were using in their food or some type of root. Can't remember..too old. Their coach was ousted also. Supposedly they all trained together at some type of camp in southern China at altitude. Some pretty impressive races though, I wish I could remember the Monaco 1500!

Abubaker Kaki runs 3:34.34 and gets 13th today. Not quite the record but still pretty impressive.

This was Wang Junxia's week during "that" week in September. It trully beggers belief.

Sept. 8th 1993: 29:31.78 WR (14:26.0 second 5k; 8:17 final 3k)

10th: 4:01.55 2h2

11th: 3:51.92 2

12th: 8:12.19 WR 1h2

13th: 8:06.11 WR (2:36 final km; 3:59 second 1500!)

And Qu Yunxia's week was perhaps even crazier:

Sept 8th: 1:57.24 2h2

9th: 1:56.21 2

10th: 3:59.38 1h1

11th: 3:50.46 WR (57.2 opening lap; 2:00 opening 800)

12th: 8:12.28 2h2

13th: 8:12.18 2

6 days in a row!

Haha funny you say that...

It's a joke that the IAAF hasn't thrown out all those ridiculously fake Chinese times.

Rasputin wrote:

Mo's had one year of dominance... and his PR's can't touch Bekele's. Talk to me when he wins the Olympic double this year

sup

the dark secret wrote:

You're comments are spot on, except for the fact that you can't remember how to spell "Chapa."

Oh, the irony.

Anyway, a couple guys I'd worked with in college headed out to Eugene post-grad (mid-'80s, this was) and did say that every UO practice was a race to establish pecking order.

I never verified it, but one of these guys *said* that Dub Myers (sp?) was the only one who actually followed the workouts, and the only one who was all-American that year.

someone had to do it wrote:

Mo's had one year of dominance... and his PR's can't touch Bekele's. Talk to me when he wins the Olympic double this year

Rasputin wrote:

sup

someone had to do it wrote:

Mo's had one year of dominance... and his PR's can't touch Bekele's. Talk to me when he wins the Olympic double this year

he beat a totally out of shape k. bekele and the most incompetently selected kenyan distance squad in history, all with the help of salazar's special sauce and nike's billions. he's learned to be a great racer, but nothing more; bekele in his peak years could kick with and beat the best, solo run insane times, oh, and set world records.

i don't think this is even worthy of conversation.

EPO is a helluva drug.

the chinese times are a joke? no more so than the current times being run by dope-fiends from MOR, ETH, KEN.

1500 Metres

5th 3:30.88 William Chirchir (KEN) Monaco 19 July 2002

This year, also in Monaco, Makhloufi ran 3:30.80 for fith.

Making him the new fastest 5th place finisher ever. So he has that ... plus an Olympic Gold medal if you care for those things.

800 Metres

1st 1:41.01 David Rudisha (KEN) Rieti 29 August 2010

2nd 1:42.23 Abubaker Kaki (SUD) Oslo 4 June 2010

3rd 1:42.69 Japheth Kimutai (KEN) Brussels, 3 September 1999

4th 1:42.85 Norberto Tellez (CUB) Atlanta, 21 July 1996

5th 1:43.09 Djabir Said-Guerni (MAR) Brussels, 3 September 1999

6th 1:43.30 Yuriy Borzakovskiy (RUS) Zurich, 17 August 2001

7th 1:43.59 Alfred Kirwa Yego (KEN) Rieti, 27 August 2006

8th 1:44.33 Dimitry Bogdanov (RUS) Athens, 2 July 2006

Here are the Olympic results:

1. David Lekuta Rudisha (Kenya) 1 minute 40.91 WR seconds

2. Nijel Amos (Botswana) 1:41.73

3. Timothy Kitum (Kenya) 1:42.53

4. Duane Solomon (U.S.) 1:42.82

5. Nick Symmonds (U.S.) 1:42.95

6. Mohammed Aman (Ethiopia) 1:43.20

7. Abubaker Kaki (Sudan) 1:43.32

8. Andrew Osagie (Britain) 1:43.77

Best ever for all 8 positions.

First time for:

Sub 1:42 for 2nd

Sub 1:43 for 5th

Sub 1:43.50 for 7th

Sub 1:44 for 8th