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not to mention the guy who joined this very same group in the northwest who went from being a midiocre 28-year-old African rnners who got dropped on the last lap to the best distance runner in the world last year.
haha. Its all about running intervals at a faster pace.[/quote]
Not to mention Alter-g treadmills, altitute tents, cryosauna, Thyroid pills...
Ok! Let's just say that we all agree, Bolt and Blake (as a matter of fact, all the Jamaican athletes) are doping. This still leaves us with the inability explain their dominance. Any new undetectable steroid/EPO/HGH/SARMS Bolt or Blake have access to I am sure the US athletes are taking these same drugs but, the Jamaicans still win. So until you bias fools can explain that, all this doping...doping...doping con-vo is bullshit.
|clearing the bs up|
Bob Kennedy is #3
unlike for epo
with more or less similar molecular structure
there are many different types of sarms
with varying strengths and effects on body .
read that there are well over 300 different types
that been researched or outlined to be researched.
and a notable effect of some is marked enhancement of glycolysis and therefore speed endurance .
simply put the jamicans have either access to a stronger sarm ,
or they complement it with powerful combo of it and undetectable steroids .
more likely that some americans could access undect. steroids also,
wheter willing to risk using them ,is another thing.
while your poor unfortunate lemaitres or trinidan and tobagans can only get hands on sarms and not possible
to risk using normal steroids as definitely get caught out.
It's interesting to note that a number of Jamaicans put their dominance down to the fact that the USA has, up to a point, cleaned up it's act.
It just seems odd that they're demolishing all the times all these nasty cheating Americans did as well as beating the new breed a nice clean American sprinters.
So, as usual, I guess it all comes down to yams.
|captain and me|
Bob Kennedy is #3[/quote]
Bob trained with Daniel Komen (7.20 3k/7.58 2M), under Kim McDonald, and everyone knows that Komen was juiced - isn't that why he didn't win the Olympics, since he didn't want to be tested?(or so the conspiracy theorists would have us believe) - so Bob must have been as well.
These are ALL spurious accusations based on jealousy that have little real foundation. But it is just as likely that a small group (even 2-3 groups) of distance people training in a no account town like Portland are juicing as with a group of people training in Iten or Eldoret or Jamaica as well. We are (except for the holier than thou types) getting to the point where either everyone is juicing or no one. That a white guy can run 19.8 for 200m - Lemaitre - says that lots of people can get to pretty good times with the right coaching and environment. I know of a local kid who just ran 27.34 for 10000m, and who was Cam Levins two years ago? Heck I've seen a local kid run 3.33 for 1500m, 13.21-22 for 5000m, and these latter are just kids from my neighborhood, so why wouldn't more talented people be able to do better? There are a lot of kids who good be as good as Rupp, it's just the coaching/development structure in the US (and USATF is such a chickensh*t organization) is so poor that too many of these potential world beaters are destroyed by the US system. Heck Levins (a Canadian for god's sake) trains solo in backwater Utah, yet he is among the best in the NCAA? Mo Ahmed is another Canadian who ran 27.34 (faster than Rupp or Ritz in College). Where are the literally hundreds of US Collegians who should be handing these guys their assess? It's not like these guys were footlocker champions!
Now James, this is a position that we can discuss.
If you compare the current Jamaican times to historical greats who have been known to have been doping, or have been strongly suspected of doping, only Bolt is better.
In the 100m--Gatlin was at 9.77, Johnson at 9.79, Montgomery at 9.78, Mullings at 9.80, all before being caught...Christie went 9.87, Mitchell 9.91, Chambers 9.97 before being caught...etc.
A bunch of those guys would no doubt have gone faster had they continued to dope...Johnson, Gatlin, Monty, Mullings for sure, and probably Chambers and maybe Christie.
The first 4 guys would have gotten to high 9.6x/low 9.7x, exactly where Powell has been, currently the second-best guy to Bolt.
So really, compared to historically KNOWN dopers, the current Jamaicans are no better except for Bolt. Powell is only their equal, Blake is the only guy near, and nobody else is even really close (Carter's Rieti 9.78 doesn't count).
So, compared to known dopers, there IS no current Jamaican dominance to explain in the 100m.
I take no sides on this, as I am unsure if your post implied that there was some sort of intrinsic superiority to the Jamaican athlete, which would "explain their dominance". Even the fact that a bunch of the guys that I have compared the current Jamaicans to were Jamaicans themselves (eg. Johnson, Christie, etc), that cannot be used to demonstrate intrinsic Jamaican superiority, because they were doped.
The only guy who stands out is Bolt, and even then only ONCE--his 9.58 (+0.9) which is a 9.62 corrected...his 9.77 (-1.3) and his 9.69 (0.0) are both 9.69 corrected, and IMHO would be within the range--although only just--of the convicted dopers, had they been allowed to continue doping.
So there is nothing to explain, one way or the other. Assuming that they are doping, they are only as good as other dopers.
If you look at other current Jamaicans not particularly suspected of doping, it is immediately apparent that they are only as good as others similarly not suspected of doping--guys like Ashmeade, Lee, Frater, Harvey, Forsythe, etc--and not even as good as the best guys who have a decent shot at having been clean (Lewis, Surin, Bailey, Fredericks, Boldon, Burrell (?)) Of those great, possibly clean guys, only Bailey was Jamaican--Lewis and Burrell were American, Surin Haitian, Fredericks Namibian, and Boldon Trinidadian.
There is nothing to explain, fair is fair, pound-for-pound Jamaicans are only as good as anybody else.
However, all the dopers I mentioned have been caught and sanctioned, and stripped of performances and medals--except for Greene, if one believes him to have been doping, then he is the exception, unless the re-testing of the 2004 Olympic samples turns up something--and that is the essential difference: none of Powell, Blake, or Bolt has been caught and sanctioned.
So, compared to known dopers, there IS no current Jamaican dominance to explain in the 100m.
are you joking me , a blind , deaf person can even see the difference.
lets see, the sudden number of elite sprinters
from there and other islands.
the consistentcy and ease that running some of these
times at nearly any meet and anytime, many conditions .
there closing speed ,
There 200m times .
previous generation running in many meets averaging
in approx 9.90's , this generation 9.80's .
suggest a cut above previous generation of dopers .
know why .
and why ,they are so consistant ,only possible
one way and where this increase in speed endurance coming
and how a tall guy like bolt doing what does.
previous taller sprinters might get injured to much
due to strain of event and not cycle legs that little bit faster as bolt does now ,unlike before when only competted in 200m.
and without this speed endurance blake mighten even bother
with 200m like alot of previous sprinters .
Boldon has at least one Jamaican parent and Bailey was born and spent quite a few of his early years in Jamaica before moving to Canada.. I think you'd be surprised at how many people of Jamaican descent have been at the top level in track and field.
Although you may be bias the majority of the time I love it when you back up your statements with facts. You are 100% correct when we compare the 100m times of sanctioned Jamaican athletes to the American athletes but my analogy was based purely on 2008-2012 wins vs. loss result not time.
Also, as I've said over and over if one is to believe that Tyson Gay is 100% clean he/she should also believe that Bolt is just as clean. There is no separating these two individuals, regardless of how often Gay or Bolt is tested.
re: "The per capita argument is utter bullshit, you know it, I know it and everyone with a modicum of common sense."
If there was a city with 1,000 residents and had 500 murders in a year and a city with 1,000,000 residents and had 600 murders in a year...which one would you prefer to live in.
Flo-Jo went from 11.1 to 10.5 and gets the benefit of the doubt from NOONE.
Shelly Ann went from 11.3 to 10.7; why should she get the benefit of doubt?
Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4570665#ixzz1uV8CGFz8
Is it "Accuse everybody better than Americans time again?". Next time I see Yohan I'll tell him to let at least two clean, honest Americans like Gatlin beat him so that people will say he's clean.
I forgot that if you come from a small place or a poor background you can't be better than someone who comes from the greatest country ever....USA!!USA!!USA!!
In reference to the 'yams' sarcasm going around the yams eaten in Jamaica, West Africa and the rest of the Caribbean are not what Americans call yams. What you call 'yams' are sweet potatoes which only taste good as far I know. The yam that Jamaicans eat has no sweet taste (may actually be bitter in the case of yellow yam).
That being said the yam argument is crap. It does contribute to Jamaicans being stronger than the pasta eating crowd but they also train hard from as young as 7-8 and compete at a high level from 13-14. Good run from my former schoolmate though. Probably you should investigate dopers from St. Jago High school and narrow it down even further then since so many great athletes come from that one school.
Maybe we could expose them for the cheaters they are when they give SARMS(?) to us for breakfast, lunch and dinner and forego academics altogether. Then we could explain why that school is also one of the best in the island academically. Good day gentlemen.....
Who gives a toss what a yam is. Bolt once stated that his success was down to 'Sunshine and yams'.
It's been since used as a euphemism for what's really going on, on the island.
Fabulous use of commas there. What's really going on? Tough training from two of the best coaches in the world coaching some of the most talented athletes in the world.
As track fans we must not be jealous of others' success. We are all humans and being divisive and jealous because someone is successful is childish.
|N Da Know|
Yes, Tyson was really injured, if he was juiced or not is not my position to speculate. But the injury is real and was serious. Hopefully he can regain his health. It's not even certain he will be able to do that.
Now this is a better thread.
Somebody upthread correctly posted the difference between the current Jamaicans and historical greats, other than the fact that none of the big Jamaicans has tested positive except Mullings: Consistency.
Sure the times are about the same, but it is really the consistency that is remarkable.
I think some of that is due to more money in the sport, and more opportunities to run big meets against other big names, producing better times throughout the season--i.e. faster times needed to actually win throughout the Diamond League season.
Not enough time to finish this post, will pick up later.
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