Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 |
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 9:49PM - in reply to serious question. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Umm, there is no such thing as an ex gay person. Sorry, there isn't.

serious question. wrote:

[quote]I see stupid people wrote:

I'd love to see you to say this to a gay person in person. Seriously, please do this.


I witnessed a former gay person say this to a gay person. Seriously, I did. It was in a public place on a college campus and the two people were arguing about homosexuality. And the gay guy challenged her by saying, "You don't know what it's like to be a homosexual." To which the now straight lady said, "Yes, I do, because I was a lesbian." It dropped like a bombshell on the argument because none of us knew that about her past. The homosexual guy was so stunned he was speechless. We were speechless too.[/quote]
news watcher
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 9:53PM - in reply to Jeff Wigand Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Jeff Wigand wrote:

He actually returned to the position he held as far back as 1996. I don't like the fact that he was disingenuous (that's a nice way to say untruthful or dishonest) about his personal position on gay marriage four years ago, but I understand it.


NBC showed an old clip of Obama as a senator stating he was against gay marriage.
My opinion
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 9:54PM - in reply to Good Billy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Yeah but the question is who would be a better runner? The one who had a difficult life verses the one who was nurtured? Btw, I would like to see more than one study...also. what about the gay couple who tried to turn their son into a girl? I remember reading something about that on here a while back.
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 9:54PM - in reply to Hello?? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
there are plenty of straight couples who marry and do not have children. Should you then say they are not allowed to marry? That in order to get married you must have children?

Homosexuality is natural in that I was born this way. It is productive in that I am a productive member of society. My partner and I do charity work together, and it is your opinion that it is not right. Why do you care if gay marriage leads to other "harmful and widely-rejected sexual behaviors". Not only does this not affect you but you are also not able to substantiate it.


Hello?? wrote:

To explain why homosexuality is not okay...

Let's have a hypothetical experiment...Let's say everyone in this world turns gay today, everyone. I mean as long as couple's love each other right?? Give it about 100 years and see how well that works out for mankind. Guess what, there would be nobody left!! There is absolutely nothing about homosexuality that is 1. natural 2. productive 3. in any way, shape, or form right. It is wholly unnatural to the existence of mankind as we know it.

Once marriage is no longer confined to a man and a woman, and the sole criterion becomes the presence of "love" and "mutual commitment," it is impossible to exclude virtually any "relationship" between two or more partners of either sex. To those who scoff at concerns that gay marriage could lead to the acceptance of other harmful and widely-rejected sexual behaviors, it should be pointed out that until very recent times the very suggestion that two women or two men could "marry" would have been greeted with scorn.
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:00PM - in reply to serious question. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You can't teach people to be gay. You can only teach acceptance. If that is who they are accept it. You can't change it, and you can't create a homosexual boy out of a straight one. The fact that you think that makes it virtually impossible to talk to you because you have no clue about being gay.

The LGBT did not push for this amendment. Right wing whackos did. When someone tries to take away your rights, you fight. But straights consider this fighting to be "in your face". Well, get out of my our lives, give us the same rights as others, and we will have nothing to fight for.


serious question. wrote:

[quote]playsfortheotherteam wrote:

I gotta say, you're a huge part of the problem. We as a country have got to get beyond this issue of "validity" and "normality" so we can focus on really important things, like increasing college graduation rates, competing with China's industrial productivity, etc.

You sound really worked up about this - and what I don't get is what on earth could have possessed you to believe that homosexuality is not valid or normal? Sure, it's a minority disposition, but so is left-handedness and no one (these days anyways) is denying left-handed people their basic rights as citizens of this great country.

You say that you know homosexuality is not right, which is a statement of stunning arrogance and overreach. Genetic or chosen - and my sense is that because of the difficulty of ascribing a genetic explanation to something as complicated as sexuality, the jury is still out on this - homosexuality is ammoral, just like heterosexuality. It's about attraction between consenting agents - people who are old enough to understand the implications and consequences of acting on strong emotional feelings. That has nothing to do with good or evil, right or wrong. Simply because you're straight (maybe) and most of your acquaintances are straight (also maybe) doesn't mean that straightness is somehow right and alternatives to straightness wrong.

It sounds like you're repulsed by homosexuality; there's something especially fervid in your writing. And it's a real shame that legislation in this country is crafted and voted on by people motivated by physical revulsion.

In the end, after the dust in NC has settled, one in ten of your friends is still going to be gay; there are still going to be gay pride parades (more perhaps); and, unless they ban this too, your kids will still be hearing in school that being gay is absolutely fine. Hey, your son might come home from college with a boyfriend one of these days, and you better effing ask him in a nice way how they met.

And then you'll die. And your son and his boyfriend will raise a kid - not to be gay but to be herself - and that kid will have other healthy, "normal," productive friends with same-sex parents, and eventually they'll get together and vote all these embarrassing amendments to hell, where you and your hateful neighbors can read them together and reminisce about the good old days when it was okay to deny people full and equal citizen status just because you thought they were gross.


I used to be indifferent to the homosexual issue. The main reason I express concern about it is because of my kids being taught in public schools. I don't want to pull them out, but I also don't want them being taught that it's normal for boys to like boys and girls to like girls. Since I have kids, it's pretty important to me. Do you have kids? Do you want them taught to be gay?

So did you read my earlier post on page 2 of this thread? Why is consensual incest (in a non-child bearing situation) illegal? Society abhors that and considers it immoral. Society has the right to determine what is moral.

I don't think homosexuality should be outlawed (like in times past). And homosexuals certainly should not be persecuted or abused. I just don't think it should be legally sanctioned and thereby taught in the public schools as being normal.

By the way, you need to rethink about the "ten percent myth." Check out what the CDC says about the actual percentage of homosexuals in the U.S. It's far less than 10%. And that's statistics coming from a government agency, not some religious group.

There is absolutely no science to indicate that homosexuality is genetic. There is no "gay gene." It's a chosen behavior. People have the right to behave that way if they want but for our government to sanction it and teach it as normal behavior to my children is overstepping the boundaries.

And no, I'm not worked up about this. It's the LGBT community that keeps working this up and pushing this as an issue in state after state. And when states like N.C. respond as they did, they are the ones who are seen as intollerant. Well, why is society intollerant towards incest? Why is society intollerant towards polygamy? There are laws against that. And there are plenty of people wanting to practice that. Are their rights being infringed upon?[/quote]
Hello??
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:00PM - in reply to playsfortheotherteam Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Charity work, really? What kind of charity work do gays do these days?
serious question.
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:05PM - in reply to TKTKTK Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

TKTKTK wrote:

[quote]serious question. wrote:

[quote]TKTKTK wrote:

Of course there's no "gay gene"; sexuality, attraction, and desire are extremely complicated, and not one of them has a single genetic determinant. Maybe you should check out that liberal school your kids go to and catch up on your bio 101.



It's not as complicated as you make it sound. That's just blurring the facts to avoid the reality that homosexuality is acquired by choice.

For obvious reasons, we can't do this, but take 1000 twelve year old boys and show them each a picture of a buff naked man and a hot naked woman and see which one they get a b0ner for. It's not that complicated.[/quote]

What the hell are you even talking about? Goddamn, it's always the homophobes that have the most vivid pornographic imaginations. I'm glad you enjoy your little scene, with you and 1,000 twelve year-old boys looking at naked pictures. You and the rest of the gay-hating Republican party can beat off to stuff like that for hours. The rest of us? We'd rather not picture underage children being brought to arousal by you.

Enough. Your comments about anal sex being taught in school and your way-too graphic description of you and 1,000 naked aroused children are over the top and frankly should get you arrested. But what they really do is show you to be physically repulsed by homosexuality. You have no reason to think that gays do any harm to their communities, partners, or adopted children: you just. don't. like. them. I'm sorry. They're here. They're real. And they're not turning straight because of your indignation. And your indignation, your hate, makes you weak. You think you're a tough guy because you're mouthing off on an anonymous running message board and voting against the rights of your friends and neighbors? Nope. All that shows is that you're fragile and defensive. So I'll say it again. We're a bigger, better country than you would have us be. We're more generous, more imaginative, more accepting, and stronger - making room for more people at the table doesn't mean there's less to go around. It means the company is more complex, the conversation more compelling. One day maybe you'll get it.

Anyway, like I said: Enough. You disgust me, tough guy.[/quote]

You're offended by my example that an adolescent kid would be turned by a hot naked woman? Seriously? Lol. You're acting like you have no sex drive at all which I doubt is true. But I guess you just ran out arguments and just wanted to obscure things with an ad hominem argument.
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:09PM - in reply to Hello?? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The same kind as straights do, idiot. But if you must know we do a lot of work for a local hospice organization. Now crawl back in your homophobic hole you closet case.
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:14PM - in reply to serious question. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
He wasn't offended that an adolescent kid would get turned on by looking at naked women, but that you used an example of showing an underage boy pornographic pictures, which is actually corruption of a minor.

If I were a participant in your illegal study, I would have gotten a b0ner at the buff guy at the age of 5, if not earlier. I knew this early that I was attracted to men. I didn't even know what gay was. Had never heard the word, didn't know anyone who was gay, yet I still turned out gay. If you show me the naked woman now there would still be no reaction.

serious dude wrote:

You're offended by my example that an adolescent kid would be turned by a hot naked woman? Seriously? Lol. You're acting like you have no sex drive at all which I doubt is true. But I guess you just ran out arguments and just wanted to obscure things with an ad hominem argument.
Jeff Wigand
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:15PM - in reply to news watcher Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

news watcher wrote:

[quote]Jeff Wigand wrote:

He actually returned to the position he held as far back as 1996. I don't like the fact that he was disingenuous (that's a nice way to say untruthful or dishonest) about his personal position on gay marriage four years ago, but I understand it.


NBC showed an old clip of Obama as a senator stating he was against gay marriage.[/quote]

He filled out a survey in 1996 which included a question on gay marriage, to which he affirmed that he wanted to see it legalized.
normalcy
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:33PM - in reply to playsfortheotherteam Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

playsfortheotherteam wrote:

The same kind as straights do, idiot. But if you must know we do a lot of work for a local hospice organization. Now crawl back in your homophobic hole you closet case.


This is a wonderful way to give back to the community. See, I don't understand why people have such a problem with gays. I wish more people did charity work.

I work with hospice in a community here in Wisconsin. What aspect do you guys volunteer in? It's very rewarding!
playsfortheotherteam
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:37PM - in reply to normalcy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Landscaping, gardening and meal delivery.
carrot onion
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:40PM - in reply to playsfortheotherteam Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm not sure if anyone has brought this point up, but I think it is worth thinking about:

I think that people are gay (mostly) due to genetic factors. In other words they were born that way. On the other hand, I was born to find homosexuality immoral. It's not an environmental thing, just who I am. Even if I was born into a family of two dads or two moms, I would of course love them, and I would probably even end up being proactive to encourage wider acceptance, but deep inside, something just wouldn't feel quite... right, because I'm just hardwired not to think it is.

So it seems that people are born to find certain behaviors acceptable or unacceptable, and while environmental factors can change their attitudes toward these behaviors much more than it can change someone born with the tendencies toward these behaviors, my *guess* is among humans:

Homosexuality: 40% innately think its acceptable
Incest, necrophilia: 2% innately think its acceptable
Interracial relationships: 90% innately think its acceptable

Like I said, despite a genetic influence, these percentages can be shifted enormously by environmental factors. For instance, until ~1970s, interracial marriage was frowned on. I think the percentage that approved of this behavior during this time period was actually lower than what it should be based on genetic factors alone, and many people were just going along with how they were raised or what their peers thought.

What's interesting is that finding a certain behavior moral/immoral doesn't have a strict correlation with being born to have a tendency toward that behavior. In other words, someone can be born gay but at the same time be born to find it immoral. In fact, there are many behaviors (many horrible ones) that people are born to have a tendency toward, but because they are were born to find these behaviors immoral, they don't act on them -- thankfully, otherwise we'd have a lot more crime.


Having said that, I think the government should uphold the right of people to choose for themselves which behaviors they want to act on as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights, safety, or well-being of others. So in order to be consistent, I have to support the rights of incestuous and necrophilic people.
carrot onion
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:44PM - in reply to carrot onion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You know, the last sentence I wrote gave me an interesting thought. For those who are religious: if God won't force anyone to behave a certain way (everyone gets a choice), why should humans be able to force that on people?
Jeff Wigand
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 10:54PM - in reply to carrot onion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

carrot onion wrote:

On the other hand, I was born to find homosexuality immoral. It's not an environmental thing, just who I am.


Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up?
carrot onion
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 11:16PM - in reply to Jeff Wigand Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up?


Not that I know of, but it could certainly be tested with the scientific method.

Of the actions that I instinctively find immoral, some are the big obvious ones: murder, lying, cheating -- and then some are actions that other people don't think are immoral: drugs, casual sex, white lies.

Then there are those things that I think are fine, but other people find immoral: interracial relationships, kissing (yes, some people think it's immoral).

You don't believe everyone is born with the exact same set of what constitutes right and wrong do you? Like I said, the environment plays a big role, but there are certainly innate feelings toward these things.
carrot onion
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 11:19PM - in reply to carrot onion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I should point out that if you think people are born gay or straight, why wouldn't you think some people are born repulsed by homosexuality?
Jeff Wigand
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 11:34PM - in reply to carrot onion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

carrot onion wrote:
immoral: murder, lying, cheating
don't think are immoral: drugs, casual sex, white lies.


I see a contradiction here, but basically, it comes down to: does this directly harm someone? I fail to see your logic in your disapproval of the morality of homosexuality (unless you're using "immoral" as others would use "unpalatable").

Then there are those things that I think are fine, but other people find immoral: interracial relationships, kissing (yes, some people think it's immoral).


carrot onion wrote:
You don't believe everyone is born with the exact same set of what constitutes right and wrong do you?


We're social animals that require working together to survive as a species. That's basically programmed into us, perhaps a few exceptions not withstanding.
need some clarification
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 11:37PM - in reply to playsfortheotherteam Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

playsfortheotherteam wrote:

Umm, there is no such thing as an ex gay person. Sorry, there isn't.[quote]serious question. wrote:

[quote]I see stupid people wrote:

I'd love to see you to say this to a gay person in person. Seriously, please do this.


I witnessed a former gay person say this to a gay person. Seriously, I did. It was in a public place on a college campus and the two people were arguing about homosexuality. And the gay guy challenged her by saying, "You don't know what it's like to be a homosexual." To which the now straight lady said, "Yes, I do, because I was a lesbian." It dropped like a bombshell on the argument because none of us knew that about her past. The homosexual guy was so stunned he was speechless. We were speechless too.[/quote][/quote]

What do you mean there is no such thing as an ex gay person?

Are you saying she never was a lesbian?
If so, are you saying she was actually a heterosexual all along even though she did lesbian acts?
If so, then who or what is a homosexual? Is it only a mindset or orientation or does it have to involve actual homosexual acts?

Or are you saying that she will always be a lesbian since she did homosexual acts, even if it was only once and she did not "enjoy" it?
If so, does that always make her bisexual if she then marries and has a kid with a guy?

Or are you saying that all people are neither hetero- nor homosexual, and that it doesn't really matter what sex acts they've done because we're all the same? We just do different things?

What are you saying?
cool dude!
RE: Is it wrong to not support gay marriage? 5/9/2012 11:38PM - in reply to carrot onion Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I'm not positive what your getting at here but I see your comparing homosexuality to necrophilia. The difference between homosexuality (at least the ones up for debate now) and necrophilia is that homosexuality is between two adult individuals who want to be with each other. Necrophilia is between one adult and one deceased individual who obviously cannot choose who it can be with. A necrophilic can not legally go to a morgue and start having sex with individuals.

This type of "domino argument" which says "If we allow gays to get married then we will eventually be letting humans marry dogs" is first of all very offensive since you are comparing two adult human beings to a sub human species and secondly is literally the identical argument that was used when states were banning interracial marriage.
Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 |