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Bastard son of Tim Robbins
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 10:53AM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
What a thread.
Here's what I learned.

1) People love to get angry when someone voices a few strong opinions based on incomplete and/or incorrect information.

2 a) Things that FP doesn't know but feels passionate about:

iii C130) You don't know if the coach asked, encouraged, demanded, begged or forbid the #2 runner to pace his buddy on to break the record. If I'm wrong, let me know. Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted. Comments he made? Some lengthy article he wrote on the glory of playing "second fiddle"?

*H2a section iv. title 6) Any self-respecting 4:16 HS miler who took second place in 4:37 after running a 2:02 should turn around at the finish line and make an obscene gesture to 3rd place kid because it would motivate them to break 4:50.

In conclusioning summary) Here is a plausible scenario that never occurred to FP:

CS ia) If I was a 4:16 HS miler, this thought might go through my head;

"Take some PED's, tell my "friend" (teammate?) I'm just going to pace him, roll him through 800 in 2:02, tuck in for lap 3, let him do all the work...then... KICK HIS ASS ON THE FINAL LAP, BREAK THE RECORD IN FRONT OF THE HOME CROWD, THROW HIS CAR KEYS IN THE RIVER, MAKE OUT WITH HIS GIRL AND RUN OVER HIS DOG. (who incidentally has better form than his master)

If I did that FP, would you be my daddy and love me more for not being a pansy? I promise I'll be better next race and slip him a bow in the throat when no one's looking.

*btw. Don't be confused by my numbering system. If you're incapable of comprehension, its because I'm a lawyer and I just read more than you do.
Bastard son of Tim Robbins
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 11:00AM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
How DARE you pre-emptively warn kids about me webfoot. Shame on you.
Young impressionable runners have every right to adopt my opinion!
You must be a hater. [quote]webfoot wrote:


Young people following this thread: There are some screwed up people out there. Be careful who you listen to, particularly on message boards.
Sagarin
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 11:15AM - in reply to webfoot Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
webfoot wrote:

I love athletic.net. Here are Kody Gould's season performances: http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=534408

Kody set his season PR of 4:16, an improvement of 9 seconds over his previous best, two days after pacing the 4:05 race. I would say he and his coaches know what they are doing.

Young people following this thread: There are some screwed up people out there. Be careful who you listen to, particularly on message boards.
This was the point I was going to make. It's highly likely that the "pacer" was trying to help his teammate and get a solid workout in an otherwise meaningless dual meet on the way to greater performances down the road. Presumably, the coach knew about this and planned it. So what? But let's pretend he didn't (my buddy and I were the two best runners on our high school team and we sometimes, though not often, did our own thing). What's he supposed to do? Pull the pacer off the track by his neck and give him a stern lecture right there? And the thing about cones. Seriously? This thread is ridiculous. This wasn't conference or state. Then the minority view would have more validity.
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 11:19AM - in reply to Bastard son of Tim Robbins Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1) No need to tell me you are a lawyer. I already knew based on how you numbered things. You also spell like a lawyer and have the grammar of a lawyer.

2) The word I have used several times in this thread is "patsy", not "pansy". BIG difference there brother.

B@stard son of Tim Robbins wrote:

What a thread.
Here's what I learned.

1) People love to get angry when someone voices a few strong opinions based on incomplete and/or incorrect information.

2 a) Things that FP doesn't know but feels passionate about:

iii C130) You don't know if the coach asked, encouraged, demanded, begged or forbid the #2 runner to pace his buddy on to break the record. If I'm wrong, let me know. Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted. Comments he made? Some lengthy article he wrote on the glory of playing "second fiddle"?

*H2a section iv. title 6) Any self-respecting 4:16 HS miler who took second place in 4:37 after running a 2:02 should turn around at the finish line and make an obscene gesture to 3rd place kid because it would motivate them to break 4:50.

In conclusioning summary) Here is a plausible scenario that never occurred to FP:

CS ia) If I was a 4:16 HS miler, this thought might go through my head;

"Take some PED's, tell my "friend" (teammate?) I'm just going to pace him, roll him through 800 in 2:02, tuck in for lap 3, let him do all the work...then... KICK HIS ASS ON THE FINAL LAP, BREAK THE RECORD IN FRONT OF THE HOME CROWD, THROW HIS CAR KEYS IN THE RIVER, MAKE OUT WITH HIS GIRL AND RUN OVER HIS DOG. (who incidentally has better form than his master)

If I did that FP, would you be my daddy and love me more for not being a pansy? I promise I'll be better next race and slip him a bow in the throat when no one's looking.

*btw. Don't be confused by my numbering system. If you're incapable of comprehension, its because I'm a lawyer and I just read more than you do.
Bastard son of Tim Robbins
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 12:25PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole wrote:

1) No need to tell me you are a lawyer. I already knew based on how you numbered things. You also spell like a lawyer and have the grammar of a lawyer.

2) The word I have used several times in this thread is "patsy", not "pansy". BIG difference there brother.

You no doubt noticed the sentence
"Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted." and mistakenly thought I made the word "coaches" plural when I meant to make it possessive. Don't feel bad. It was an easy mistake to make. It was actually an artistic choice, not a mistake. I've conveyed two meanings in one sentence as an homage to the Japanese poet Matsuo Basho. If I had separated the two sentences to facilitate your understanding of the duel meaning, it would have read like this. "Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan!" and "Tell me where the coach's stand on the race plan is posted!"
It's tricky, I know. But that's just the nature of higher forms of art.

As for any other supposed grammatical and/or spelling "errors"; they were all an homage to E.E. Cummings. All were intended to convey a deeper meaning; one my dizzying intellect was forced to express.

Patsy vs pansy was a mistake, but an honest one. I've been reading Chekov in Russian all week and the cyrillic letter that most resembles an "n" actually resembles a "t" in its cursive form. Of course the "p" is read in Russian as "r" and the "y" as "oo". This makes the word "patsy" sound like "ratsoo" I intentionally inserted the letter "n" to create a potential russian reading of the word "ransoo". This was meant to infer that he "ransoo" fast no one could catch him." It was an honest mistake to think this joke would be anything less than pearls before swine.

And how dare you call me "brother". You've no way of knowing if I'm African American or how I feel about someone calling me a "brother". You must be a hater. Hater.


[quote]B@stard son of Tim Robbins wrote:

What a thread.
Here's what I learned.

1) People love to get angry when someone voices a few strong opinions based on incomplete and/or incorrect information.

2 a) Things that FP doesn't know but feels passionate about:

iii C130) You don't know if the coach asked, encouraged, demanded, begged or forbid the #2 runner to pace his buddy on to break the record. If I'm wrong, let me know. Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted. Comments he made? Some lengthy article he wrote on the glory of playing "second fiddle"?

*H2a section iv. title 6) Any self-respecting 4:16 HS miler who took second place in 4:37 after running a 2:02 should turn around at the finish line and make an obscene gesture to 3rd place kid because it would motivate them to break 4:50.

In conclusioning summary) Here is a plausible scenario that never occurred to FP:

CS ia) If I was a 4:16 HS miler, this thought might go through my head;

"Take some PED's, tell my "friend" (teammate?) I'm just going to pace him, roll him through 800 in 2:02, tuck in for lap 3, let him do all the work...then... KICK HIS ASS ON THE FINAL LAP, BREAK THE RECORD IN FRONT OF THE HOME CROWD, THROW HIS CAR KEYS IN THE RIVER, MAKE OUT WITH HIS GIRL AND RUN OVER HIS DOG. (who incidentally has better form than his master)

If I did that FP, would you be my daddy and love me more for not being a pansy? I promise I'll be better next race and slip him a bow in the throat when no one's looking.

*btw. Don't be confused by my numbering system. If you're incapable of comprehension, its because I'm a lawyer and I just read more than you do.
[/quote]
Concerned Citizen
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 12:31PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole wrote:

1) No need to tell me you are a lawyer. I already knew based on how you numbered things. You also spell like a lawyer and have the grammar of a lawyer.

[/quote]


What is that supposed to mean? Just felt like insulting the legal profession? Geez, FP, just stop - you're embarassing yourself!
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:12PM - in reply to Concerned Citizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's not an insult. I honestly knew the guy was a lawyer right off the bat due to his numbering (I used to teach computer classes to lawyers, and they always wanted to know how to do such things). From my experience, lawyers don't know how to spell too well or use English too well. It's a badge of honor for many of them just like how doctors brag about having poor handwriting.

Even if it WERE an insult (which it wasn't), it wouldn't be insulting the legal profession. There are many lawyers that are very good at what they do including my own brother. It would be recognizing a benign trait that isn't central to their job that is common among lawyers (the paralegals fix all the errors for them). For me to insult the legal profession, I would have to call them all crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics or something like that. That's not true by the way...only about half of them are crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics.

Concerned Citizen wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:

1) No need to tell me you are a lawyer. I already knew based on how you numbered things. You also spell like a lawyer and have the grammar of a lawyer.

[/quote]


What is that supposed to mean? Just felt like insulting the legal profession? Geez, FP, just stop - you're embarassing yourself![/quote]
Placeba
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:18PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole: "I used to teach a computer class to lawyers so I know all about them and can make sweeping generalizations about the profession."

Oh Flagpole, you're too much! Ha ha!

This is a microcosm of the way you think. LOL
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:20PM - in reply to Bastard son of Tim Robbins Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Nope, that's not where your mistakes lie. You don't use the subjunctive when you should, you use the wrong "its", and then are a few other things, but that's ok brother. You're allowed to make grammar and spelling mistakes. You're a freakin' lawyer after all. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two about the law.

B@stard son of Tim Robbins wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:

1) No need to tell me you are a lawyer. I already knew based on how you numbered things. You also spell like a lawyer and have the grammar of a lawyer.

2) The word I have used several times in this thread is "patsy", not "pansy". BIG difference there brother.

You no doubt noticed the sentence
"Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted." and mistakenly thought I made the word "coaches" plural when I meant to make it possessive. Don't feel bad. It was an easy mistake to make. It was actually an artistic choice, not a mistake. I've conveyed two meanings in one sentence as an homage to the Japanese poet Matsuo Basho. If I had separated the two sentences to facilitate your understanding of the duel meaning, it would have read like this. "Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan!" and "Tell me where the coach's stand on the race plan is posted!"
It's tricky, I know. But that's just the nature of higher forms of art.

As for any other supposed grammatical and/or spelling "errors"; they were all an homage to E.E. Cummings. All were intended to convey a deeper meaning; one my dizzying intellect was forced to express.

Patsy vs pansy was a mistake, but an honest one. I've been reading Chekov in Russian all week and the cyrillic letter that most resembles an "n" actually resembles a "t" in its cursive form. Of course the "p" is read in Russian as "r" and the "y" as "oo". This makes the word "patsy" sound like "ratsoo" I intentionally inserted the letter "n" to create a potential russian reading of the word "ransoo". This was meant to infer that he "ransoo" fast no one could catch him." It was an honest mistake to think this joke would be anything less than pearls before swine.

And how dare you call me "brother". You've no way of knowing if I'm African American or how I feel about someone calling me a "brother". You must be a hater. Hater.


[quote]B@stard son of Tim Robbins wrote:

What a thread.
Here's what I learned.

1) People love to get angry when someone voices a few strong opinions based on incomplete and/or incorrect information.

2 a) Things that FP doesn't know but feels passionate about:

iii C130) You don't know if the coach asked, encouraged, demanded, begged or forbid the #2 runner to pace his buddy on to break the record. If I'm wrong, let me know. Tell me where the coaches stand on the race plan is posted. Comments he made? Some lengthy article he wrote on the glory of playing "second fiddle"?

*H2a section iv. title 6) Any self-respecting 4:16 HS miler who took second place in 4:37 after running a 2:02 should turn around at the finish line and make an obscene gesture to 3rd place kid because it would motivate them to break 4:50.

In conclusioning summary) Here is a plausible scenario that never occurred to FP:

CS ia) If I was a 4:16 HS miler, this thought might go through my head;

"Take some PED's, tell my "friend" (teammate?) I'm just going to pace him, roll him through 800 in 2:02, tuck in for lap 3, let him do all the work...then... KICK HIS ASS ON THE FINAL LAP, BREAK THE RECORD IN FRONT OF THE HOME CROWD, THROW HIS CAR KEYS IN THE RIVER, MAKE OUT WITH HIS GIRL AND RUN OVER HIS DOG. (who incidentally has better form than his master)

If I did that FP, would you be my daddy and love me more for not being a pansy? I promise I'll be better next race and slip him a bow in the throat when no one's looking.

*btw. Don't be confused by my numbering system. If you're incapable of comprehension, its because I'm a lawyer and I just read more than you do.
[/quote][/quote]
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:25PM - in reply to Placeba Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I suppose all the bad grammar lawyers ended up in my computer classes for 3+ years and all the other ones outside of the DC area have sterling use of the language. Ok. I suppose that's possible.

People really shouldn't be offended by that anyway. Those who decide to be lawyers or doctors or computer programmers did so because they DIDN'T choose a profession where written communication was primary; would be nice if they had that skill too, and obviously some do, but it's not pertinent to their work. It is a little more important for lawyers, but that's why they have paralegals to clean things up for them.

Placeba wrote:

Flagpole: "I used to teach a computer class to lawyers so I know all about them and can make sweeping generalizations about the profession."

Oh Flagpole, you're too much! Ha ha!

This is a microcosm of the way you think. LOL
Placeba
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:26PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole wrote:

Nope, that's not where your mistakes lie. You don't use the subjunctive when you should, you use the wrong "its", and then are a few other things, but that's ok brother. You're allowed to make grammar and spelling mistakes. You're a freakin' lawyer after all. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two about the law.


Is his type of grammar known as "ok brother," or are you calling him "brother" and telling him it's ok. If the latter, you omitted a comma. I am assuming you don't understand this grammatical rule because you have been repeating it. You should stick to teaching computers. Don;t try to pontificate on subjects where you lack appropriate expertise.
Concerned Citizen
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:29PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole wrote:

It's not an insult. I honestly knew the guy was a lawyer right off the bat due to his numbering (I used to teach computer classes to lawyers, and they always wanted to know how to do such things). From my experience, lawyers don't know how to spell too well or use English too well. It's a badge of honor for many of them just like how doctors brag about having poor handwriting.

Even if it WERE an insult (which it wasn't), it wouldn't be insulting the legal profession. There are many lawyers that are very good at what they do including my own brother. It would be recognizing a benign trait that isn't central to their job that is common among lawyers (the paralegals fix all the errors for them). For me to insult the legal profession, I would have to call them all crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics or something like that. That's not true by the way...only about half of them are crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics.
[/quote]

1) Good writing is absolutely central to the legal profession. Saying lawyers are bad with the English language is like saying the surgeons are no good with knives.

2) If you think lawyers don't care about grammar and spelling, just go down to your local law school and talk to the kids on the law review. Not even the grammar trolls at LRC will prepare your for the level of devotion to the mundane details of writing that said students exhibit.

3) If a devotion to numbering is a sign of a lawyer, I suppose that that means you are a lawyer too?
Placeba
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:35PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
[quote]Flagpole wrote: Those who decide to be lawyers ... did so because they DIDN'T choose a profession where written communication was primary ... it's not pertinent to their work. It is a little more important for lawyers, but that's why they have paralegals to clean things up for them.

[quote]Placeba wrote:

Oh my, this has got to be one of the most uninformed statements I have read on a message board. Holy cow!
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:38PM - in reply to Placeba Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Ha! By the way, I didn't teach any computers. Technically "ok" should be "OK" too. Just because I KNOW the rules doesn't mean I will always FOLLOW the rules. I pretty much don't make fun of anyone's grammar or spelling either (unless they call someone "retarded" and in the same sentence misspell another word; then they need to be called out), and I wasn't even doing that this time...just telling him that his numbering and grammar screamed at me that he was a lawyer. My experience told me so. I was right.

Placeba wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:

Nope, that's not where your mistakes lie. You don't use the subjunctive when you should, you use the wrong "its", and then are a few other things, but that's ok brother. You're allowed to make grammar and spelling mistakes. You're a freakin' lawyer after all. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two about the law.


Is his type of grammar known as "ok brother," or are you calling him "brother" and telling him it's ok. If the latter, you omitted a comma. I am assuming you don't understand this grammatical rule because you have been repeating it. You should stick to teaching computers. Don;t try to pontificate on subjects where you lack appropriate expertise.[/quote]
Old Gregg
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 1:39PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
[quote]Flagpole wrote:
It is a little more important for lawyers, but that's why they have paralegals to clean things up for them./quote]

Yeah, I'm sure lawyers totally trust some University of Phoenix grad to clean up their writing.
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 2:13PM - in reply to Concerned Citizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
1) It IS central, but they are not good at it...one of the reasons they hire paralegals. Lawyers do the research and check for legal issues and TRY to get everything written well, but the paralegals clean it up. Again, SOME lawyers are good at that, but most in my experience are not.

2) What they talk about in school and what happens later on in their professional lives are two different things. Go to an education class and you'll hear the professors and the students talk about how they have the most important job in the world and they they are central to the future of our society and that all kids are great, etc. Lofty goals and views yes, but once you get into a school system, very few teachers and administrators feel that way. I was disappointed with the attitude of many of the teachers I worked with which is one of the reasons I no longer am a public school teacher (some were AWESOME though).

3) It's not just a numbering system, it's a specific numbering system for multi-level lists.

Concerned Citizen wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:

It's not an insult. I honestly knew the guy was a lawyer right off the bat due to his numbering (I used to teach computer classes to lawyers, and they always wanted to know how to do such things). From my experience, lawyers don't know how to spell too well or use English too well. It's a badge of honor for many of them just like how doctors brag about having poor handwriting.

Even if it WERE an insult (which it wasn't), it wouldn't be insulting the legal profession. There are many lawyers that are very good at what they do including my own brother. It would be recognizing a benign trait that isn't central to their job that is common among lawyers (the paralegals fix all the errors for them). For me to insult the legal profession, I would have to call them all crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics or something like that. That's not true by the way...only about half of them are crooks and ambulance chasers with zero ethics.
[/quote]

1) Good writing is absolutely central to the legal profession. Saying lawyers are bad with the English language is like saying the surgeons are no good with knives.

2) If you think lawyers don't care about grammar and spelling, just go down to your local law school and talk to the kids on the law review. Not even the grammar trolls at LRC will prepare your for the level of devotion to the mundane details of writing that said students exhibit.

3) If a devotion to numbering is a sign of a lawyer, I suppose that that means you are a lawyer too?[/quote]
Flagpole
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 2:22PM - in reply to Old Gregg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Everyone needs an editor, brother. Paralegals are trained to do a much more focused task than what lawyers do. A thorough lawyer will write a document, have the paralegal check it for mistakes and then check it again themselves.

But, hey, how about that kid who ran 4:05!!! Damn that's AWESOME!!!

Old Gregg wrote:

[quote]Flagpole wrote:
It is a little more important for lawyers, but that's why they have paralegals to clean things up for them./quote]

Yeah, I'm sure lawyers totally trust some University of Phoenix grad to clean up their writing.
Concerned Citizen
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 3:38PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Flagpole wrote:

1) It IS central, but they are not good at it...one of the reasons they hire paralegals. Lawyers do the research and check for legal issues and TRY to get everything written well, but the paralegals clean it up. Again, SOME lawyers are good at that, but most in my experience are not.
[/quote]

Okay, having someone proofread your writing does not mean you are bad at writing. And in my experience . . . well, it depends on what you are comparing them too. Most lawyers are not particularly gifted writers on an absolute scale, but compared to the public at large, or other professionals, they are excellent. Sort of like the mathematical skills of engineers.
mwwwin
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 6:28PM - in reply to Concerned Citizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This thread is the perfect example of these boards being a waste of time...
clayt
RE: Future Star: 1600 in 4:05 at High School Dual Meet 5/9/2012 8:50PM - in reply to Flagpole Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Actually he has run at big invitationals and he still whoops everybody. 1:49.4 for the 800 at the shoreline invitational
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