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Wsl
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 1:24PM - in reply to Concerned Citizen Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have lost so much respect for Solinsky in the last few months. Makes one appreciate Galen Rupp and Bob Kennedy more.
Hill Stomper
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 1:57PM - in reply to Wsl Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I know man, and Richard Simmons. Rupp, Kennedy, and Simmmons. Those guys maintained fitness without injury for much longer than Solinsky.

Solinsky has a lot to learn from Richard Simmons.
rojo
co-founder
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 2:24PM - in reply to Hill Stomper Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just read the original article and was wondering if a thread would be started about it as I think it's worth discussing.

I don't really like the animosity people are directing towards Chris as i think it's refreshing to have guys actualy say what they mean instead of giving the boring/PR type interview you see from 99% of pro athletes that aren't even worth reading.

On the plus side, I am pleased that people aren't going nuts calling him racist as he groups all African runners as being one in the same.

But what I wanted to talk about is the factuality of his statement. Clearly, he's forgotten all about the 2008 Beijing Olympic 5000 which we labelled the greatest 5000 ever run.

http://www.letsrun.com/2008/5k0824.php

In that race, Bekele led virtually the entire thing and really slammed the last 2k.


LRC wrote:

The 3k came and went in 8:00.85 for Bekele. He was trailed by a large group, including Lagat, who was licking his chops at the fairly modest pace. But the fun was about to begin, and Bekele was going to make it happen all by himself, without help from anyone.

They had been running honest 63s and 64s since the 600-meter mark, but it was evident with 2k to go that the king of the 10k had a plan to become the king of the 5k. The plan apparently was to start suffocating the field with a relentless full-throttle surge towards the finish that only the most fit and tough could absorb.

With 5 laps remaining, Bekele pounced on the gas sternly. The 3,400m was reached in 9:00. The lap split was officially 59.96! Game over for most of the field. Only 6 were left in the lead pack. Bekele, Kenyans Eliud Kipchoge and Edwin Soi, Ugandan Moses Kipsiro, Qatari James C'Kuiru, and a game Bernard Lagat, who was going to give his all to try to stay with the lead group. Would Lagat hold on? Would the pace lag? Where were the other Ethiopians?

No, no, and gone.

Bekele kept applying the pressure. From 3k to 4k, he ran 2:31.7 from the front. No rabbits here, folks, this was the King stamping his seal on the greatest runners of the rest of the world. In the process, the Qatari was dropped. Lagat, looking so good with 4 laps to go ... off the back with three to go and his medal prospects totally gone with 1k left.

There were 4 remaining in the lead group, but Kipsiro was hurting. It looked like it was down to 3. It now was down to Bekele, who had pushed the pace from 600 meters into the race, and the 2 Kenyans, whose coaches had talked of pushing the pace and winning the gold but in reality had done zero of the work. What a splendid turn of events!

Instead of the Kenyans pushing, they had seemingly inspired Bekele to show them exactly how hard he could push, how deep he could dig, what incredible tortures he could devise for his own pleasure ... and their horror. It was a sight to behold. Still 800m to go, and Bekele had just pounded out a 60.84. The Kenyans were right on him, Soi and Kipchoge looking to take down Bekele like in Mombasa where he failed to finish World Cross in 2007. Now 600m to go, then coming into the bell and the Kenyans were still there. Was trying to lead the whole 5k a mistake? Was Bekele a sitting duck? Had the task of pushing the pace tired the great one?

Oh no, oh no, and oh no.

400m to go, 60.94! Bekele was on a mission. Last year in the World Championships 10k, Sileshi Sihine had the lead in the last half lap and Bekele had to show his greatness by coming from behind. Today, he would reveal it from the front.

The King pushed harder at the bell and unleashed his lethal kick. Any doubts as to whether he had anything left in the tank instantly evaporated as the increase in pace was nearly instantaneous. The Kenyans tried to respond accordingly. Could they do it? Immediately, Soi was dropped. Kipchoge tried to hang on but halfway around the first turn Bekele had a 2-3 meter lead over him. With 300m left, the lead was up to 5 meters. With half a lap to go, Bekele had a 10 meter lead and it continued to widen with every step.

With 150m to go, Bekele knew the victory was his and viewers could tell that the normally reserved Bekele was enjoying this one. This one was special; completing the 5k/10k double at the Olympics would make him into legend in the general public's mind - a general public that would never understand what it means to win World Cross-Country year after year.

Just past the middle of the final turn, Kenenisa pointed a #1 sign to the sky in and flashed a sly smile. The stoic one was oozing style and excitement. He was a dangerous killer tonight. Nearly finished with his greatest murderous spree, and enjoying it like we've never seen him before. He slammed the last 100m and broke 13:00 with ease in 12:57.82, crushing the old Olympic record of 13:05.59.



I think in general he says that the Kenyans and Ethiopians don't like to hurt until the last 1k is because the last few years, there haven't been any real transcendant 5k guys. Everyone is pretty much hanging on for dear life at 12:55 pace, the pace slows and then they kick for home.

Unless you are way better than everyone, it's hard to push the pace from far out otherwise you just act like a rabbit for everyone else and tire yourself out. So save up and rest of the push for home.

If anything, I think Solinsky's plan is very bold (and yet he's getting ripped for being a wimp here). It would be great to see it but I'm not sure it would work.

I think an American's best chance for a medal is very much the opposite - to be a wimp and play it safe. Let the Kenyans and Ethiopians make the big moves from 2k or 1k and just try to cover them slowly. Stay in 5th or 6th and then move up when they crater sort of like how Flanagan medalled in the 10k last time out.

If you run trying to get 5th, you might end up 3rd when several of the 5-6 guys running for first implode.

Remember Pre? If he had tried to medal, he would have. he went for the win and ended up 4th.
trance dance turn in shawowski
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 2:37PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:

I think an American's best chance for a medal is very much the opposite - to be a wimp and play it safe. Let the Kenyans and Ethiopians make the big moves from 2k or 1k and just try to cover them slowly. Stay in 5th or 6th and then move up when they crater sort of like how Flanagan medalled in the 10k last time out.

If you run trying to get 5th, you might end up 3rd when several of the 5-6 guys running for first implode.

Remember Pre? If he had tried to medal, he would have. he went for the win and ended up 4th.


Dathan Ritzenhein - the ultimate wimp for playing it safe. Result: AR & 3rd at a major

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMZfYn6e80

Forget your Wheaties kiddos, watch this every morning.
Cliff Clavin
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 3:08PM - in reply to No honor Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

No honor wrote:
Winning from the front does not equal hurting from more than 1K out.

That comment from you is really stupid.


Having won from the front more times than you've probably even finished a race, I can tell you that it usually does.
smd
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 3:26PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:

Clearly, he's forgotten all about the 2008 Beijing Olympic 5000 which we labelled the greatest 5000 ever run.




Rojo, in the thread below you said Lomong at Payton Jordan was the greatest race ever. It being a 5,000, wouldn't that make it also the greatest 5,000 ever?

This is an exciting time to be a running fan, what with greatest this and greatest that being run with such frequency. It'd be helpful if you guys would keep a list. Probably best to make it easy to change for the weekly update.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4555596
Placeba
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 3:28PM - in reply to Cliff Clavin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It looks like Solinsky just ran off the track and quit the race. Why didn't he just get back on the track and continue running?
the BRObius strip
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 3:30PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

rojo wrote:

some stuff





Solinsky still takes an unnecessary shot at Alamirew. He makes the nudge sound like a malicious attack. If I was Alamirew (and if I could read English, and if I read what Chris said) I would be pissed.
Cliff Clavin
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 4:03PM - in reply to rojo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I will attempt to defend Solinsky while remaining objective. As I said earlier in this thread, nobody really (with very few exceptions) wants to hurt from more than 1k out, or at least most athletes want to win or do their best but they may want to minimize discomfort if possible. Having said that, my experience is that the athletes with the best kicks have a particular incentive to let the race be decided as close to the finish as possible (within reason), and so it does seem to me that some of the Kenyans, and particularly, Ethiopians have been the ones with the best effective kicks in the 5000 and 10,000 meters (races which Solinsky contests).
I assume I am stating the obvious. I am sure there were those who competed against Rupp in college who felt he didn't want to hurt, especially when he developed a decent kick where he could follow until close to the finish and then unleash a strong kick. Did Miruts Yifter want to hurt from a long way out? It is immaterial, he did what worked for him, as he could kick with great explosiveness. This was also true for Geb to a large extent, and of course Bekele. It all depends on who you're facing. Bekele could wait until the last lap against many, but perhaps not so comfortably against Lagat or ElG. ElG wanted a long kick in the 1500, but in the 5000 he could use a relatively short kick and have the advantage. This is not an issue of who wants to feel pain, but more who has what relative strengths and how they choose to allocate their energy based on these relative advantages and disadvantages. Solinsky simply made a statement which perhaps could give him some hope in strategy, but it came across as inartful and silly.
smoke yee another'n, bubby
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 4:04PM - in reply to the BRObius strip Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6eATer2yU&feature=related

Solinsky was, in fact, pushed by Alamirew.

At 16 seconds, Alamirew is on Solinsky's right shoulder.

Right after 16s, it is evident that Almamirew shoves
Solinsky to the inside with his left arm and IMMEDIATELY (almost subversively) steps out and continues on ahead on the outside rear of the lead pack. You can tell by the subtle downward jerk of Alamirew's head, immediately before Solinsky's loses his balance, that he contracted his body to push Solinsky to the inside of the track with his left arm.

It is very subtle, but you CAN see it with clever usage of the pause button.

Solinsky visibly is caught off guard, mid-stride, and instinctively swings his left arm up in an attempt to regain his balance.
the BRObius strip
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 4:10PM - in reply to smoke yee another'n, bubby Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
That's called racing. What Solinsky described sounds like a football hit.
haha
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 5:53PM - in reply to the BRObius strip Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
100% agree. You don't see mo farah bitchin about edwin soi in the 3000m indoor world championship race. Chris could learn a thing or two from a lot of professional runners.
J.R.
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 7:12PM - in reply to smoke yee another'n, bubby Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

smoke yee another'n, bubby wrote:

Right after 16s, it is evident that Almamirew shoves
Solinsky to the inside with his left arm and IMMEDIATELY (almost subversively) steps out and continues on ahead on the outside rear of the lead pack. You can tell by the subtle downward jerk of Alamirew's head, immediately before Solinsky's loses his balance, that he contracted his body to push Solinsky to the inside of the track with his left arm.

It is very subtle, but you CAN see it with clever usage of the pause button.

Solinsky visibly is caught off guard, mid-stride, and instinctively swings his left arm up in an attempt to regain his balance.


Yes, it does look like Alamirew shoved Solinsky as you said. Also Merga elbowed and cut him off drastically just a few strides before that.

However, Solinsky should have focused on holding his position in both instances, instead of hugging the curve and trying to balance on the edge of it. He made a major mistake there and should practice to learn from it.

Merga should definitely have been disqualified. Alamirew's foul was more effective, yet not so obvious. Perhaps he saw Solinsky's precarious running style and took advantage of it. They had no reason to want him out of the race, unless he had fouled them earlier.
2ndThatEmotion
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 7:14PM - in reply to the BRObius strip Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Really I mean that was ONE of the lamest reasons to quit a race by an elite athlete! QUESTION: how can someone say the Kenyans or Africans don't want to hurt the last 1000m? Most other nations aren't around to make them hurt but if they were WHO IS TO SAY THE KENYANS AREN'T CLOSE TO MAX EFFORT that last 1000m?

How can you say they aren't trying and not actually hurting that last 1000m, is there some equipment I don't see plug onto them letting Mr. Solinsky know that their effort is less then 100%?
Mega ahead
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 7:33PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Whats wrong with you people? Are we not watching the same video.

Fact: Alamirew touched Solinsky

Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinsky

Point worth Discussing: Why Solinsky stumbles forward, but then makes an UNNECESSARY run off the track. Seriously, watch the video, he DID NOT need to step off the track.

This is all laughable.
J.R.
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 8:13PM - in reply to Mega ahead Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Mega ahead wrote:

Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski


You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.
Cliff Clavin
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/4/2012 8:17PM - in reply to J.R. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

J.R. wrote:

[quote]Mega ahead wrote:

Falsehood: Alamirew THREW HIS WHOLE BODY into Solinski


You are making things up, as I did not say what you have suggested.[/quote]


He's referring to Solinsky's own words. Posters reply to more than just you, surely you must know this.
naia champ
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/5/2012 2:43AM - in reply to smoke yee another'n, bubby Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Good thing LR wasn't around in '72.

•"I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it." -
fgfg
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/5/2012 8:04AM - in reply to VIPAM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
remember SOLINSKY faked and dropped out of that race in europe
VIPAM
RE: WAYTAB: CHRIS SOLINSKY, "Kenyans don't like to hurt from 1000m out.." 5/5/2012 8:27AM - in reply to naia champ Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
When athletes like John Ngugi, Moses Kiptanui, Paul Tergat etc retired it did leave a void in Kenyan distance runners. That's not to say that Kenyans don't hurt from more then 1000m out; however, they haven't been as successful as in the past in routinely capturing as many medals as they have in the past in the 5000m and 10000m. With the addition of runners from other countries like Zersenay the Kenyans don't neccessariy have to push the pace because Zersenay does it for them...in an attempt to get away from the kickers like Kenenisa Bekele.

I'm still trying to understand where the comment came from since Kenyans are always in the top 5 or higher in Championships races. The important factor isn't the Kenyans on the men side it's the Ethiopians who almost always sit and outkick the Kenyans in the last 400m.

So when you have the closing speed of the Ethiopians and now Mo Farah and Bernard Lagat, why would you need to push it from more then 1000m out?
.....

By the way I love that above quote by the previous poster!
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