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ukathleticscoach wrote:Radliffe won the world junior xc those lot came from nowhere and back again and half that Ma's athletes were busted in later years

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here's the deal yo wrote:

Ma's athletes didn't fail any tests. They just had "abnormal levels". This was before the 2000 Games. Before Beijing had even been awared the '08 Games. The powers that be in China, many of whom hated Coach Ma, decided to pull all but one of his athletes just in case they destroyed everyone like they did in '93 and '97. They didn't want any negative pub (well, any more than they already had) in the buildup to the awarding of the '08 Games. That is what I've heard from several people, anyway.

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tjmiler wrote:

Obviously its not as conclusive as Marita Koch's name being found on a list of athletes who were systematically doped in East Germany

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djäveln wrote:

to elevate them into the hall of fame in perpetuity does a great disservice to those who have striven, year after year, in the light of open competition, for all the world to see.

Shame.

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djäveln wrote:

i'm suprised at the tolerance on this message forum for these chinese athletes' perfidy. they came and went, like thieves in the night.

to elevate them into the hall of fame in perpetuity does a great disservice to those who have striven, year after year, in the light of open competition, for all the world to see.

Shame.

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tjmiler wrote: ... Noah Ngeny only have had 1-2 spectacular seasons at young age and then dropped from the WR ability)

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Beijing Workers' September 8-13 - The shocking showing of the Chinese distance women in Stuttgart was only a prelude to their efforts at the Chinese National Games. By the time the last beam had been broken, six had gone under previous WRs a total of 14 times and experts then world over - those inside the stadium and out; chinese and non-chinese coaches rival to the mercurial Ma Junren; and of course the entire world's press - were shaking their heads in stunned disbelief (see p.4).

The meet began hot and stayed that way. On day one, Wang Junxia, the Stuttgart 1OK champ, followed veteran Zhong Huandi for more than 17 laps of the 10,000. Zhong had passed halfway in 15:05.69, and five laps later they were still on even pace to challenge lngrid Kristiansen’s WR 30:13.74 from ‘86. Wang, running well within herself, finally unleashed her kick with 3000 remaining. She tore through the next kilo in 2:45.6, and followed with a 2:44.9. She needed to run her last kilo in only 3:28.9 to break the mark, but hammered a 2:46.9 to finish in an historic 29:31.78, continuing to run, with arms raised, after the finish. Zhong, a half lap behind, came home in 30:13.37, also under the record. The third placed finisher, Stuttgart 3000 silver medallist Zhang Linli, finished outside 31 minutes.


Wang’s performance put the world on notice that more records would follow. She had run her last 5000 in 14:26.0, well under Kristiansen’s WR 14:37.33. Truly unbelievable was Wang’s last 3000, clocked by Omega in 8:17.47, more than five seconds faster than Tatyana Kazankina’s WR from ‘84. Wang and her compatriots had more races to run. Hoever Two days later, in the heats of the 1500, she ran 4:01.55 Stuttgart 3000 champ Qu Yunxia led the qualifiers at 359.38; the 12th and slowest qualifier ran 4:02.44 The next day, teammate Liu Dong acted as rabbit in a planned assault on Kazankina’s WR 3:52.47 - a mark that had stood for 13 years.

Liu, the World 1500 champ, embarked on an ambitious pace that favored her more talented training partners. She hit 400 in 57.1, 800 in 2:00.7, and stepped off the track. Qu took the initiative, with Wang following. They covered the next lap in 64.5. Qu who had earlier run a 1:56.24 for 2nd in the 800 to Liu’s 1:55.54, took advantage of her superior speed to get a meter ahead of Wang. With 200 left, Wang made a last-gasp effort to take the lead, but Qu prevailed. She emerged triumphant with a 350.46 WR. Wang also bettered the record with her 351.92.

Zhang Linli, 2nd in the Stuttgart 3000, finished well back at 357.46. Altogether, 7 women broke 4:00, including 17-year-old Wang Yuan, whose 3:59.81 bettered the WJR she had set in the heats. Three days earlier she had toppled Maria Mutola’s WJR with her 157.18 in the 800 heats. A day later, the heats of the 3000 shocked even more. In the first, Zhang Linli and Zhang Lirong both cruised under Kazankina’s WR of 822.62, running 822.06 and 822.44 respectively. It was a WR fated to last only some 14 minutes.

In the second heat, Qu teamed up with Wang Junxia and lesser-known teammate Ma Liin. Training partner Wang Yanfang set the pace for a quick 529.43 at 2000 before she faded. As Qu and Wang Junxia gradually sped up, Ma lost contact but did not fade. Wang edged ahead at the finish, her 8:12.19 shattering Zhang’s mark by 9.87. Qu finished just 0.08 back (8:12.27). Ma also ducked under the mark with her 8:19.78.

A day later, Wang and Qu faced each other again to settle the score. This time, no rabbits led the way. Wang moved to the fore and hit 1000 in 2:42.0. She lagged on her next kilo, running 2:47.7 for a 529.65, slower than the heat. In her sixth race in as many days, Qu finally found her speed blunted. She could not pull even with Wang, who had unleashed her trademark kick.

On the last lap, the margin grew steadily, and before long it was not a question of who would win; it was how much damage they would do to the record. Wang covered the last kilo in 2:36.4 and crossed the line in a stunning 8:06.11. Qu also broke the mark - by the barest of margins - finishing in 8:12.18. Three others trounced the ghost of Kazankina: Zhang Linli (8:16.50), Ma (8:21.26) and Zhang Lirong (8:21.84). Even the last placed finisher made headlines as 14 year old Yang Ling ran a stunning 8:42.3 for 8th to conclude this most dramatic of weeks in global athletics.

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Sprintgeezer wrote:
doping - Radcliffe, El-G, Johnson 1.0, Griffith-Joyner, Dreschler, Johnson 2.0, McKoy, Issajenko, etc., etc., etc., likely people like Bubka, Sotomayor, etc.

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Walt George wrote:The fact is, that no matter how much drugs you pump into a Chinese male - you are never in a million years going to produce a LeBron James, Usain Bolt or Hicham el Guerrouj.

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Swanee River wrote:

I question this idea that being a statistical outlier means someone is doping, just because there are in fact freaks of nature in almost everything else.

For example, if you tried to use statistic to show how tall a person could be, would you ever predict that someone could be 8' 11" tall? That's crazy tall and a complete outlier but someone that tall really existed. Or if you look at vocal range, having a several octave range is very unusual, but the record range is 8 octaves.

The physical characteristics that make someone a great runner aren't as easy to measure but who is to say there aren't freakish outliers and Radcliffe is one.

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Walt George wrote:

So why can’t they do the same for the men?

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djäveln wrote:

i'm suprised at the tolerance on this message forum for these chinese athletes' perfidy. they came and went, like thieves in the night.

to elevate them into the hall of fame in perpetuity does a great disservice to those who have striven, year after year, in the light of open competition, for all the world to see.

Shame.

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