| KBC |
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I have an upcoming 20-mile race that is 7 weeks before my target marathon. It's mostly the same course as the marathon, so it will be a good opportunity to see the course and test my fitness. But I'm a little worried that a 20-mile all-out race may be too much in terms of trashing myself (plus time needed for recovery) at this stage of a marathon training cycle. Anyone have any suggestions on how to approach the race? Maybe run it at goal marathon pace instead of all-out? Even that would be a really hard effort. How about goal marathon pace for half-marathon and then jog it in? Or should I just go for it? As background, I average about 80 miles per week and am targeting high 2:30s for the marathon. Thanks for any thoughts. |
| Archimedes |
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You could make it just another long run with half of it or more at marathon pace. That way you could test your fitness, and still run the course. Seems like you would be setting yourself back to race it "all out." |
| over50 |
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Since you're questioning, ... play it safe. Bring a friend, stronger than you, to pace you (slow) with a leash before you take off. You have more to risk than to gain by going too fast. A 20 mile slow run is a for sure positive if you feel good at the end. |
| MarathonMind |
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80 miles per week is decent mileage. I say go for it. |
| KBC |
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Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I'm worried about losing maybe a week of training in recovery. I wouldn't worry about a half marathon, but it seems like those extra 7 miles could make a huge difference. On the other hand, it's not like I'm a pro or training for the Olympic trials and so there's a part of me that thinks "who cares about recovery, go for it if you feel good". |
| *stipe |
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Right, you will need to take the recovery seriously. Make it something like 6 relaxed + 14 at MP. Practice being patient, taking fluids, etc... I think if you race it and it goes well you will have a 20 mile pr, but would you want that if it compromises your marathon? |
| pr100 |
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Maybe the answer is to go for it, but be ready to bail out if it starts hurting too much later on in the race? You can normally tell when a run is going to be tough to recover from. If it's an "A" race then you don't worry and do what you can to keep the pace up; but if it's essentially for training purposes then ease up if you really start to suffer. |
| jaguar1 |
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Run it at marathon pace-- relaxed, controlled, and even. Practice drinks and gels. Give yourself as much time as you need to get the snap back in your legs, before doing anything quick. The race will boost your fitness in a big way. You'll feel it in about 10 days. |
| KBC |
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Thanks again for the responses. Jag1's suggestion (MP effort with practicing drink/gels) is where I'm leaning at the moment. I realize that 10 easy and 10 at MP is the more conservative and maybe even more sensible approach, but I'd also like to take advantage of the opportunity to test my fitness and practice for the big event. I think high 2:30s is a reasonable target, but I am new to the marathon so am thinking a test would be a good confirmation of my goal pace (+ give a confidence boost if all goes well). As pr100 said, I can always shut it down if I know I'm redlining (which of course also would mean that I overestimated my marathon pace). Thanks to all, helpful stuff! |
| J.R. |
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Good grief, what a bunch of weenies. I ran a flat out 21 miles 3 weeks before my fastest marathon, absolutely flattened myself and almost got sick a couple hours later. I'm convinced that run was a major reason for achieving my lofty goal in the marathon. |
| MarathonMind |
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and you were running at least 80, 90, 100 miles per week. right? |
| Dick Doobey |
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I say run 5 miles easy to warm up then 15 miles at marathon pace. This is actually a fairly standard marathon training run for me and some guys I know. |
| J.R. |
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98 .. 13 21 13/3* 10 10 9/5* (5k tk race 1st) 14st 98 .. 10 18 13*/5* 10 11 9 22* (21 fast) 98 .. 6 13 18/3 15st/8 12 10* (10k tk race 1st) 18 98 .. 16 10/4* (2 t.t.) 10 8/4* (2 t.t.) 12 20 14* (10 fast) 91 .. 15/3 13*(3 fast)/3 8/3 4 2 28* (marathon) 12 98 .. 6 2/3/4 13/5 16/4 14/3 13 15* 10k tr race 1st) * - speed session or race st - strides (usually 4x 1/4 mile) hot, tough course, 3 1/2 minutes off previous |
| 26mi235 |
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I used to do the first 20 miles of a marathon in that same time frame. In a couple cases I ran with a friend because his pace was good for a fast 20-mile run but was 10+ seconds per mile slower than I could run at the time. A couple of other times I was running at and occasionally slightly faster than my marathon goal pace, but I would not do so if/when I started to really drop off. My philosophy was to run a good fraction of my long runs at either good or fast pace. How in the world training with all the long runs 2 minutes slower per mile is going to get your body ready to deal with the glycogen shortage it will face in a marathon is beyond me (running that much slower means much of your energy can come from other metabolic routes and can be greatly supplemented with consumption during the run). So, I like your idea. However, I would make it a training race. You should go out a bit easy and steadily ramp up the pace to where you are going faster than marathon pace (not necessarily as an average, due to the slower start) and hold it there as long as you can without burying yourself. It should have negative splits which will make for a good mental exercise as well. Since your marathon goal is just over 6min/mile I would start as slow as 6:40 for a mile and then speed up 5-10 seconds per mile to 6:10, and then slowly increase your pace to about 5:57 - 6:00 for a couple miles somewhere in the second half to push yourself. If it is too hard, then your training is not there yet. I generally found that these hard 20 milers did not require a long period of recovery, but I was going just short of race effort (not maximizing my effort/pace). |