i'm not surprised in any way
if, as he seems that he is z-man's coach, for him to agree that a "road guy" coud be in 10000m wr shape one time woud be highly inflammatory to lot of ( ?!closed mentality ) fans who believe the greatest 10000m runners are the ones who only run the 10000 ( kennster, of course )
he woud be pilloried in all media for such "outrageous biggin' up"
remember komon ran devastating 26'46wr on loop course, with albeit unknown wind
if assuming little wind, that had to be close to 10000wr, but few acknowledge it ( maybe intimidated by "die-hard" "track-not-road" fans ) - personally, i believe that had to be close to 26'17
here is a poser
if a 1/2M guy eventually runs 57'00 or even 56'00 on a flat/windless/loop course, woud you then believe/accept, it is probably a certainty that it can't be done without intrinsic 26'17 track shape ?
Of course it can be done without intrinsic 26'17 shape. Apparently you don't understand running.
this is logic
what is slowest 1/2M time that can't be done without intrinsic 26'17 ???
They are different events so this question is meaningless. You are a slave to your calculator without realizing that it is just a model and a poor one at that.
I don't see where Antonio is lying here, and frankly most of what Antonio says makes sense. ZT did decide to run slower as planned and Jernonimo confirms that fact.
So ZT starts at 3:00 and ends up in a big second pack comprised of all the Moroccans as well as Marilson Gomes. Not bad company and not a bad plan except for the fact that the Kenyans were running 2:57s. And the math does not lie. That 3 sec/km difference held and so they were a full minute down by 20k. Still not a problem since splitting 63/61 should be something ZT can easily do. But when the chase pack saw they were over 300 meters back and finally began to respond, none of them had a 2:54 in reserve. Least of all ZT, who actually fell off the second pack as early as 25k, with Gharib and Annina leading the chase- NOT Tadese! ZT had a problem well before 36k. Ross, Antonio, myself; we all suspect he came to London with dead legs.
The AT problem was just one of many.
I don't agree with that.
As Jeronimo Bravo has stated, Tadesse had some achilles issues, which were worse after 36 km. That makes sense to me. I see no reason to make conjecture of anything else.
Maybe it was a problem of the shoes (regarding achilles).
Of course the program is still being developed. I'm very interested in the training and ideas that Jeronimo Bravo is sharing, and hope he continues to contribute.
Gracias for your answers.
Permit me that I post something about Tadese/Bravo all free ion the internet. You can post what is wrong in this texts.
Zersenay Tadesse (Eritrea) Preparation of a champion.
The past October 24 and 25, I had the opportunity to travel to the XVI Jornadas Técnicas in Madrid. In these coaching conferences was Jerónimo Bravo, the coach of Zersenay Tadesse. I would like to share an abstract of his conference/lecture, that was one of the most interesting about the training of another great athlete.
Zersenay Tadesse, born in Adi Bana, Eritrea on February 8, 1982. 2007 World XC Champion, Silver medal 10000 m (26:50.12) Berlin 2009, Bronce medal 10000 m Athens 2004, 5th place 10000 m Beijing 2008
4 times IAAF World Half marathon Champion:
59:16 Rotterdam '06
58:59 Udine '07
59:56 Río de Janeiro '08
59:35 Birmingham '09
Results in IAAF World Cross Country Championships
1st. Mombasa '07
3rd. Amman '09
Personal bests: 3000m 7:39.93, 5000m 12:59.27, 10000m 26:37.25, half marathon 58:59.
Jerónimo Bravo is probably the Spanish coach that has achieved more medals in major global events. His athlete has won medals in cross country, track and road racing in the same season, for example in this year Zersenay was world champion in half marathon, world silver 10,000 m in Berlin and bronze medal in world cross country.
Zersenay started to RUN at age 20 in January 2002 and to TRAIN shortly after has been working with Jerónimo since the beginning. At that time was relatively young, with superb qualities, he had to become an athlete first and to get know him both the physical and the personal. If his conditions for the races are exceptional human quality is too. Easy to success and failure, hard-working and professional to the extreme, solidarity and team man who assumes the role of figure in Eritrea remains a model for his 7 brothers, young people and the rest of his countrymen. Besides, he is very grateful to his coach.
Athlete and coach are working on a project that spans from 2004 to 2012 with different training goals, consolidation and culmination in the marathon in the 2012 Olympic Games.
Technically has a great efficiency in a race, and "born" to run the marathon. In training they prefer to run less quantity (volume) but with high quality and, from there, increasing the amount up to 165 or 170 km per week without reducing the speed (2:50/km or 4:32 per mile). These runs are also supported by the increase in strength with hills, drag runs, exercises with his own bodyweight, some light weights, but very specific and aimed at the race.
In the 2008-2012 cycle he will move to the marathon and road races and, indeed, has recently proclaimed World Champion in Half Marathon (11 October 2009 in Birmingham), resulting the 4th consecutive time. They are increasing the quality significantly, and the also quantity up to 200 km per week
Training cycles before Berlin 2009.
After 10 days without being able to train to retrieve a viral problem prior to London Marathon and a small foot injury arose during the race, the following periods were organized:
5 weeks in Eritrea since late April to early June.
Approximately 150 km on average, 3 sessions quality sessions in cycles of 9 days.
(1 dia específico seguido por 2 dias de genérico)
6 weeks in Madrid from mid June to end of July. Test of 5000 m in 13:07 (Malaga meeting), in week of high load of volume 180 km. With 5 intense training sessions in the last cycle of 12 days. (1 dia específico seguido por 2 dias de genérico)
4 weeks training in Eritrea prior to Berlin traveling directly from Asmara.
They maintain volume of km and increase intensities at altitude.
Follow the same structure of 5 loads of intensity in cycles of 12 days. (20 sessions)
(20 sessions=48 dias)
July 2006. 3 x 5 x 500 m in 1:09-1:10 with 2 min recovery and 4 min between sets
September 2006, just before Rotterdam Half Marathon
2 x 3000 m in 7:57 and 8:00 +3 x 1000 m in 2:32 at Villahermoso stadium in Madrid
December 2007 (place Garabitos forest) 3 x 4000 m in 10:41, 10:39, 10:37, with 5 weeks of training, the following week he ran the Vallecana 10 k race below 27:00 min.
5 x 2000 m under 5:20 with 3 min recovery in Casa de Campo Park, Madrid.
February 2007 (Asmara, Eritrea)
Test of 10,000 m below 28 in training
3 x 6 x 600 m in 1:28-1:29 with 2 min recovery and 4 min bet sets.
8 x 1000 m + 400 m with 2 min recovery in 2:37 and 59 seg
He is a very professional athlete, that year 2007, a month later, was world champion in cross country in Mombasa. They went to celebrate at a dinner in Madrid and Zersenay was nervous because he had to go to rest to restart training the next day. It was only 9:00 PM.
They both believe that his future is in the Marathon in 2012.
There are more details but I hope this could start some technical debate among athletes and coaches (CANOVA and others).
(I must remind you that Spanish is my native language and you may find some mistakes).
No, Zersenay does not run all the time to 2:50/km. But he is able to sustain this pace for a long time. To prepare for the 2009 London Marathon there was an increase up to 200 km per week and several sessions at under 3:00/km pace.
This type of training helped him to grow even more. For the first time he could increase the loads with the aim to the 10000 m of Berlin and also the quality in a important way. If you observe his times of the 4 km repetitions, they are run at 13:35 pace for the 5000 m.
He runs at 3:05-3:10/km very often. His coach believes that 3:20/km pace is not useful to him, except for recovery. In Eritrea there is not synthetic track. He trains on a cinder track at 2300 m altitude (about 7200 feet). They believe that Zersenay has not achieved his limit, he does not finish the training sessions very tired. He does not train in group neither or with rabbits because there is nobody in their group who can hold him the pace.
Here are some examples of his training:
Place: casa de campo park in Madrid, Spain.
Monday: 1 hour 15 min run + technique exercises + strides.
Tuesday:1 hour run + technique exercises on up hill + 80 m hills sprints.
Wednesday: 30 min run + 12 km at 2:57 per km.
Thursday: 1 h 25 min run.
Friday: 30 min + 10 x 1000 m in 2:36-2:38 with 1:30 recovery.
Saturday: 1hour 15 min run
Sunday: 40 min run + fartlek 3 x 2 min (recovery 1 min), 3 x 5 min (1 min), 6 x 1 min (1 min), PM_ 30 min easy run
Place: Asmara (At 2300 m altitude)
Monday: 1 h 15 min run + 6 x 150 m.
Tuesday: 30 min run + 2 x 5 x 600 m in 1:27-1:28 with 2 min between reps and 3 min bet sets. PM 30 min easy run.
Wednesday: 30 min run + 8km at 3:00/km. PM, 30 easy run.
Thursday: 1 h 15 min run.
Friday: 30 min run + 6 x1200-400-200 in 2:57, 58 and 27 with 2:30,1:45 and 1 min recovery. PM_ 30 min easy run.
Saturday: 1h15 min run.
Sunday: 30 min run + 8km (2 times: 2km at 3:00/km pace + 1km at 2:50 + 1km at 2:40) PM_ 30 min easy run.
But for me, the most surprising is his lifestyle, very simple but very, very professional!!