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Aaron A. Aaronson
Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 9:39PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
At distances over a mile, was Skah the best kicker ever? Been watching some youtube videos of him and I've yet to see one where he's outkicked. Even Geb loses. I think maybe Bekele might have been able to do it but, all-in-all, Skah wins if anywhere near the lead with 400 to go.
Cliff Clavin
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 9:42PM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Well, Nahhhhhhmie, Morten Andersen wasn't half bad...
Aaron A. Aaronson
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 9:57PM - in reply to Cliff Clavin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Cliff Clavin wrote:

Well, Nahhhhhhmie, Morten Andersen wasn't half bad...


Minus the football.
Cliff Clavin
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 10:00PM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Remember that in the race where Skah destroys Geb, Geb was not in his prime yet. Nonetheless, Skah could kick, no doubt.
rough awkward style
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 10:20PM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I've seen that said a lot, but he was a lot better at pace and position than kicking.

His kick wasn't really all that fast.
break it up
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 10:31PM - in reply to rough awkward style Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Marc Davis outkicked him when he ran the 8:12 AR 2 mile.

In cross country Skah reminds me of an American runner around that time, Tim Hacker. Very strong power and turnover in the lower body for a distance runner. Especially on the grass. Those two were built the same.
break it up
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 10:34PM - in reply to break it up Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Abraham Chebii? 50 point at the Prefontaine Classic 5000 one year in a 13:04 race. Maybe it was 51. That has to be the greatest kick in a one shot deal I ever heard of.
The Monk
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/12/2012 11:14PM - in reply to break it up Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The king of the kickers in my book was Alberto Cova.
ggg
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 6:45AM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Didn't Paul Bitok outkick Skah over 5000m at Bislet?
Old school kicking
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 6:55AM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Mirtus Yifter (AKA Yifter the Shifter) wasn't half bad either.
The MonBRO Doctrine
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 8:07AM - in reply to Old school kicking Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtDUkS9RD_0

Geb waxing Khalid Skah, Paul Tergat and Salah Hissou in the 1995 WC 10,000.

The Emperor wasn't a bad kicker.
chubb
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 9:59AM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Skah's kick was very much feared by many of the best 5K/10K runners of the time and caused MANY to resort to tactics that they might not have tried otherwise.

He also raced a lot compared to many which built his reputation.

It is difficult to single any one person out as the BEST at anything, but as a kicker Skah would have to be included in the conversation and likely in the best dozen or so ever IMO.
bangalangadanga
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 10:09AM - in reply to chubb Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I don't know if Morcelli could be considered as the best kicker ever, but this is my favorite kick of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9VRMa91ew
toro
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 12:22PM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So here is Skah out kicking Geb in a 1994 at 5,000m, 10 days after Geb broke Aouita's 5,000 record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1--VQoCMjg


Geb 1993 kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBFtPl5yeFE

Geb 1995 kick over Skah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtDUkS9RD_0

Geb 1996 kick over Skah and 2000 kick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eZ-x4IEoXM

1997
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeyZUdUI1fY

1999
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5FyrEKaCs
Sagarin
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/13/2012 12:41PM - in reply to bangalangadanga Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

bangalangadanga wrote:

I don't know if Morcelli could be considered as the best kicker ever, but this is my favorite kick of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9VRMa91ew


Man, that was ridiculous. Started his kick from about 300 out and just kept extending his lead. Aouita and El Guerrouj weren't half bad either, especially kicking in a 5000.
ventolin^3
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/14/2012 12:49AM - in reply to Aaron A. Aaronson Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
maybe this may help

i think skah in '94 was worth close to 12'55 ( off his devastating 13-flat which was still more a tactical race than just a pure tt ) & close to 27-flat ( he didn't run many tt over 10k but was the olympic champ ! )

line of fit of maybe :

51.7 / 1'49.1 -> 3'34.3 , 4'51.6 , 7'29.9 , 12'56.1 , 27'03.4

for geb in '94, maybe

52.1 / 1'49.6 -> 3'34.7 , 4'51.9 , 7'29.7 , 12'54.3 , 26'56.0

he only had a ~ 27'15pb back then, but it's pretty obvious in retrospect he was worth sub-27 at the time

it's possible geb was close to 0.5s slower over 400 & that showed on that last lap of that 13'00 skah win

if perhaps nearer 12'55 pace, it may have been different result

note, i do reckon the moses of '92 was better kicker than both - he ran 7'28.9wr & a 13'01 off a derisory pace for 3k & storming last 2k - he was worth at least 12'55 that day with proper pacing to 3k

51.0 / 1'48.0 -> 3'32.7 , 4'49.9 , 7'28.0 , 12'54.2 , 27'03.3
ventolin^3
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/14/2012 1:11AM - in reply to ventolin^3 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

ventolin^3 wrote:for geb in '94, maybe

52.1 / 1'49.6 -> 3'34.7 , 4'51.9 , 7'29.7 , 12'54.3 , 26'56.0


compare to line of fit at his possible peak in '98

51.0 / 1'47.2 -> 3'29.9 , 4'45.2 , 7'19.2 , 12'36.0 , 26'16.9

( he ran his 12'39wr too slow to 4k & put in blistering last 2'27 !

he was worth near 12'36 that day with quicker pace to 4k )

his actual 400/800 ratio is virtually unchanged ( indicator of endurance ) - what happened is that he just got stronger & tacked on better 400 speed to virtually unchanged endurance & that made all the difference from 12'55 down to theoretical 12'36
ventolin^3
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/14/2012 1:27AM - in reply to break it up Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

break it up wrote:Abraham Chebii? 50 point at the Prefontaine Classic 5000 one year in a 13:04 race. Maybe it was 51. That has to be the greatest kick in a one shot deal I ever heard of.


he had best 400 speed of any of them & likely in slow race, the best kick

he recorded a 50.6 in an 8-flat 3k, so maybe close to open 50-flat ( article says only full sprint from 250 ot )

http://www.iaaf.org/news/athletes/newsid=27394.html


In late autumn, altered training to improve ability to stay with fast pace and finish still faster. After quick-kicking wins in first three GPs of 2003, tested new training in Oslo GL 5000 against Kenenisa Bekele, staying with 13-minute pace and streaking to the front shortly after the bell. Held lead into home straight but tied up badly and finished 4th (in PB 12:52.99) behind Kenenisa and Kenyans Sammy Kipketer and Eliud Kipchoge. A week later, in Paris, followed famous kick of Haile Gebrselassie with faster one of his own, leaving the "Emperor" nearly a second adrift (12:53.37 to 12:54.36), and a week after that blew past both Haile and Kenenisa in Rome (12:57.14).

Abraham Chebii may be the most explosive kicker in recent distance running history. Even in an era in which a top-class 5000 runner has to be able to close a 13:00 race with a 55 second last lap, Chebii stands out. In the Grand Prix Final at the end of the 2002 season, he clocked 50.68 for his last 400 meters, and he didn't start his full sprint until 250 to go. As he says, however, "It is easy to kick when the pace is slow. You must be able to follow a fast pace and then kick." Which is what he trained himself to do over the 2002-2003 off-season. The most convincing evidence of that training's effectiveness came in the Rome GL, where Haile Gebrselassie, having been outsprinted by Chebii in Paris, started driving for home from 600 meters out, with Kenenisa Bekele and Chebii in tow. Haile was spent by the final turn and moved wide to let Kenenisa through, but Chebii slipped through the gap as well and bounded after the sprinting Kenenisa. He passed the Ethiopian with 50 to go and was timed at sub-25 for his last 200 -- in a 12:57 race


i saw that race on tv - absolutely stunning

it's pretty obvious he was capable of well below 12'50 at even pace that year

i'd go with provisional line of fit for him as

50.0 / 1'46.2 -> 3'29.7 ! , 4'46.0 , 7'22.6 ! , 12'46.2 , 26'49.9

he couda gone 3'29 & well below 7'25 in '03 if he'd targeted those in his brief bulldozing shape when he destroyed 1st geb then kennster in races
Wannabe Goldbug
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/14/2012 2:02AM - in reply to ventolin^3 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Perhaps you already posted it somewhere but I would be interested in your line of fit for Aouita in his prime
ventolin^3
RE: Khalid Skah Best Kicker Ever? 4/14/2012 2:22AM - in reply to Wannabe Goldbug Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
for '85 i go with something like

48.3 / 1'44.2 -> 3'28.3 , 4'45.7 , 7'25.1 , 12'56.9 , 27'28.7

to

48.4 / 1'44.3 -> 3'28.4 , 4'45.6 , 7'24.8 , 12'55.9 , 27'25.4

( he is entitled to low 3'28 off a 3'29.7 with a last lap of 52.8 & pretty obvious he was worth well below 13'00 as they did jog around the 4th km before sydney picked up pace & aouita just tucked in

the 3k was always a problem for him & he just never managed to time it - we have 12'55 kenyans with little speed running 7'28/7'29 & for aouita not beating 7'32 in '85 is one of the sport's mysteries... )
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