Paul Hardcastle "19"
Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 12:12AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hoping the fine folks of Letsrun can help me out.

A guy a few houses down from me has a 15-year old son who runs track. The guy states that his son's track coach is also a football coach and has no idea how to train the distance kids. Being that the guy watches me run by his house twice a day - he asked me if I knew anything about training and if could recommend some workouts for him to do.

I agree to meet them at the track and do a workout with the kid to determine how we should train him. We did the following workouts together...

Day 1: I tested his top end speed over 100 meters. He ran 13.5 seconds in spikes. We took a 5 minute rest and then did 8x200 with 200 meter jog rests - the kid went anywhere between 30 and 33 seconds.

Day 2: 4x800 with 400 meter jogs - the kid ran 2:40, 2:40, 2:39, 2:37. He held on but didn't look so hot after the last one and was locking up.

His top end speed isn't great but I think he has some potential. He's 6-1, roughly 160lbs, good basketball player, low body fat. The kid doesn't feel like running longer than 5-6 miles at a time...and runs usually 25 miles a week.

How should I train this kid for the 800 meters?
JB800/1500
RE: Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 12:53AM - in reply to Paul Hardcastle "19" Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
have an emphasis on shorter types of intervals and lower volume training (30-35mpw at max, since he doesnt like going long, preferably 30 at the most). he has some endurance so just assuming by looking at these workouts he is more of an 800/1500 guy than a 400/800 guy. and from that you can assume that his strength as an 800 runner would be more towards strength/even pace running, but the speed does have a good deal of potential.

he's 15 and already 6-1, he most likely isnt fully coordinated right now and is still going through puberty so it will take some time for him to adjust to not just the training but the actual mechanics of running. work with him on a long term scale if you can and focus right now on just getting him used to the sport and learning how to work with his body and mechanics; that means teaching him how to sprint.

just based off the sounds of his body frame though he could very easily, once he coordinates himself (and this can take a few years, i didnt fully coordinate myself in running until around junior year in HS), turn into a 400m/800m guy so i think the focus should be on building up his speed a bit as he has some amount of endurance that he can work with. throw in a long run of like an hour if it doesnt exceed more than 25% of his weekly mileage. get him doing tempos as his longer work than on the track and interval days have the focus be on shorter stuff with smaller amounts of rest (think along the lines of speed endurance). his speed isnt too bad, definitely needs work but it could also be a case of him not being used to running a 100m. do a reassessment of his fitness and abilites in a few weeks time to see where he is at and what kind of times he can throw down.

so, in short, work on getting him to learn how to sprint and run, he has endurance and a pretty good engine so work with that but emphasize speed development at the same time. this means tempos for longer stuff, long runs and getting him on the track with shorter, faster stuff (not pure speed stuff though) that has smaller amounts of rest. most importantly, dont wreck him, take it easy and rest, and if you can go for long term development. sit him down and let him know you want to make this a long term thing if at all possible and not to be frustrated if the results dont start flying in.

keep in mind, i'm no coach but this is just something i would try with him. get other coaches advice and even read some books. this is just my opinion, not neccesarily the answer to your question. hope it all turns out well, keep us posted too and make sure you reassess him. i wanna hear how this kid turns out
ukathleticscoach
RE: Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 2:46AM - in reply to JB800/1500 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
'so, in short, work on getting him to learn how to sprint and run, he has endurance and a pretty good engine so work with that but emphasize speed development at the same time. this means tempos for longer stuff, long runs and getting him on the track with shorter, faster stuff (not pure speed stuff though'

You advice is good apart from this bit. How is any of that teaching th kid how to a sprint? Circuits, weights, hills, drills and speedwork gives you speed and form but build up gradually don't dive straight in

You need the rest for endurance etc. He sounds more like a miler/ 5km runner to me but unless someone is trained up you never know. If you build up the training gradually he will get used to longer runs.

It would be best to get him to join a group of runners as kids need to train together
gc
RE: Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 7:41AM - in reply to ukathleticscoach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Perhaps someone could comment on these weekly workouts for your high schooler. It's the plan a successful HS coach set up for me for the 1500m this summer as a M65 runner. Pace is mile race pace except as shown. Recovery is walking. Please note that this is 1500m specific, not 800m specific. The other key workouts are a weekly long run and a weekly tempo run.

1. 8x400 (3min recovery)
2. 8x400 (2min recovery)
3. 8x400 (90sec recovery)
4. 8x400 (75sec recovery)
5. 8x400 (60sec recovery)
6. 9x400 (60sec recovery)
7. 10x400 (60sec recovery)
8. 10x400 (2min recovery) Pace: 2-3 seconds faster per lap.
Paul Hardcastle "19"
RE: Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 10:59AM - in reply to gc Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If I can get him to run outside of practice - which consists of the coach telling anyone 800m and up "run hard for 6 minutes and come back and we'll do some 400's", this is what we are looking at building to (not considering the meets):

This would be his FINAL plan: 40-50mpw. We'd obviously work up to this.

Week One:
M: 5-7 miles easy.
T: 400's (any of the workouts seen above)
W: 5-7 miles easy.
TH: 4x1000 threshold/strength
FR: off
ST: Hills repeats
SU: 10-12 miles easy.

Week Two:
M: 5-7 miles easy.
T: 400's (any of the workouts seen above)
W: 5-7 miles easy.
TH: 100-200-400 ladders/pryamids
FR: off
ST: 3-4 mile Tempo at 6:00 pace
SU: 10-12 miles easy.

Based on his 800 workout he ran with me, he does have some 5K potential. I'm going to try to talk to his father about having him run XC. This might be tough considering he likes the social aspect of football right now.

Please critique. This thread is great...thanks for the responses.
hill city
RE: Help me train this HS 800m runner 4/12/2012 11:06AM - in reply to Paul Hardcastle "19" Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A good place to start: Google, "Joe Rubio Training Guide". It's really good; makes a lot of sense and is applicable to what you're training to do.