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Conundrum
Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 12:42PM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/03/senate-republicans-defeat-white-house-proposal-strip-subsidies-from-oil-companies-senate-gop-defeats-white-house-plan-strip-oil-subsidies/ukS3mjDoTIO86sAp0rMTmL/index.html

They have record profits, they control our supply through owning the refineries and deciding how much oil to export, oil production has never been higher.

We are hurting with high gas prices. So why do they need our subsidy?
Lyndon Larouche
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:11PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
The oil companies are victims....they need our help!
Sammy13
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:14PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Oil excutives are like high priced welfare queens. Both have a sense of entitlement.
Duh?
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:27PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's what the Republicans want.
coach d
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:29PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
But I'll bet every one of those republicans voting for the oil company welfare queens will try to blame Obama for the federal debt (and fail to remember that he inherited at $1.7 trillion federal deficit from GWB's last year).
Rational Economics
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:54PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Your question has a socialist premise. A subsidy is the provision of money to one party that was collected from other taxpayers. In this case, the "subsidies" in question are actually tax credits, so you're distorting the very concept of a subsidy. The conflation of tax credits with subsidies assumes that the earnings of oil companies are the collective property of society, which is the moral basis of socialism and communism.

Also, oil companies do not control how much product gets exported; currency exchange rates do. Oil companies give strength to our currency by producing values for which the U.S. dollar can be redeemed. The weakening of our currency is being caused by the fiscal and monetary policies whose primary champions are the current crop of leftists, who openly recommend weakening the dollar to "stimulate" the economy and promote exports.
Blowing.Rock Master
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 1:58PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Define "subsidy".
gasser
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:04PM - in reply to Rational Economics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Rational Economics wrote:

Your question has a socialist premise. A subsidy is the provision of money to one party that was collected from other taxpayers. In this case, the "subsidies" in question are actually tax credits, so you're distorting the very concept of a subsidy.


You're distorting the concept between a credit available to all companies/industries and those available only to select companies/industries. The latter would be a subsidy.
Rational Economics
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:11PM - in reply to gasser Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

gasser wrote:

You're distorting the concept between a credit available to all companies/industries and those available only to select companies/industries. The latter would be a subsidy.


A tax credit is NEVER a subsidy under any circumstance.
Reality Checker
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:12PM - in reply to Rational Economics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Obviously the oil companies do not need these subsidies (or tax credits). The Republicans whine about big gov't and waste, but they hypocritically vote for big oil profits with one hand while getting the other one greased by big oil. Meanwhile they pass Ryan's budget which includes tax breaks for millionaires funded by Medicare cuts. What are they thinking? They're not only making sure Obama gets re-elected, but they're going to lose a number of congressional seats, too.
Information
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:21PM - in reply to Reality Checker Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Paul Ryan never served in the military.
Blowing.Rock Master
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:25PM - in reply to Reality Checker Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Reality Checker wrote:
Obviously the oil companies do not need these subsidies (or tax credits).


No company should receive subsidies - period. And that also goes for all the ones Democrats support.

The rest of your post has nothing to do with this argument, but I will point out that Warren Buffet's tax bill would go up under Ryan's plan.
ryan foreman
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:28PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Because we have a mild form of fascist government in our country. Corporations are part of the government and government is part of the corporations.

Any other questions?
coach d
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:30PM - in reply to Rational Economics Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
A tax credit is giving someone something (or allowing them to pay less) that somebody else has to pay for. That IS a SUBSIDY unless everyone gets it.



The American Chemical Society cites a report by Double Bottom Line Venture Capital that explains how the oil industry has reaped benefits from subsidies. From 1918 to 2009, the average annual subsidy was $4.86 billion. By comparison, the nuclear energy industry gets around $3.5 billion per year.
When the study adjusted for inflation to 2009 dollars, the oil and gas industry received subsidies amounting to $1.8 billion per year in the first 15 years of the fledgling industry. The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry.

Current Status

The Obama administration contends the oil industry no longer needs help. The three largest oil companies made $80 billion in profits combined in 2011, which amounts to $200 million per day. The White House also asserts America uses 20 percent of the world's oil but only has two percent of the world's oil reserves. Oil drilling continues in all areas of the United States and oil rigs are plentiful in the Gulf of Mexico, the White House blog states.

The New York Times had an article dated July 3, 2010, in the middle of the Gulf oil spill. Deepwater Horizon rented the sunken rig to BP. The company used an oil industry subsidy to write off 70 percent of the cost of the rent for the rig which amounted to a deduction of $225,000 per day.



It appears that the taxpayers are GIVING the oil industry more in subsidies dishonestly (by paying off people like Ryan and Santorum) than they are making "honestly" (why is the gasoline-crude price spread in the futures market substantially greater than it was in the first half of 2008?) in the marketplace.
Reality Checker
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:34PM - in reply to Blowing.Rock Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

The rest of your post has nothing to do with this argument, but I will point out that Warren Buffet's tax bill would go up under Ryan's plan.


Read it again. It has everything to do with answering the OP's question.
health freedom
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:36PM - in reply to Reality Checker Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Reality Checker wrote:

Obviously the oil companies do not need these subsidies (or tax credits). The Republicans whine about big gov't and waste, but they hypocritically vote for big oil profits with one hand while getting the other one greased by big oil. Meanwhile they pass Ryan's budget which includes tax breaks for millionaires funded by Medicare cuts. What are they thinking? They're not only making sure Obama gets re-elected, but they're going to lose a number of congressional seats, too.


Actually oil companies DO need to keep their own earnings.
Corrupt-o-crat Conundrums
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:42PM - in reply to Conundrum Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/tax_repatriation_holiday/

These companies' profit margins make the oil companions look like girl scouts fundraisers.

Why do the corruptocrats not piss, moan and whine about them?
Blowing.Rock Master
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:44PM - in reply to coach d Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

coach d wrote:

A tax credit is giving someone something (or allowing them to pay less) that somebody else has to pay for. That IS a SUBSIDY unless everyone gets it.



If you get to keep some of the money you earned via a tax credit, how is somebody else paying you? Was it their money to begin with? If so, then how much of what you earn actually belongs to someone else? 10%, 50%, 100%?

For you to get a subsidy, money has to be taken from someone else and given to you. You can only classify keeping money you earned as a subsidy if you assume that everything you earn belongs to someone else.
Blowing.Rock Master
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:53PM - in reply to Reality Checker Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Reality Checker wrote:

[quote]Blowing.Rock Master wrote:

The rest of your post has nothing to do with this argument, but I will point out that Warren Buffet's tax bill would go up under Ryan's plan.


Read it again. It has everything to do with answering the OP's question.[/quote]

Here's the OP's question: "They have record profits, they control our supply through owning the refineries and deciding how much oil to export, oil production has never been higher. We are hurting with high gas prices. So why do they need our subsidy?"

Please point out where the OP mentioned Paul Ryan, Medicare, or giving tax breaks (that they're not getting) to millionaires.
gasser
RE: Why should tax payers subsidize oil companies? 3/31/2012 2:57PM - in reply to Blowing.Rock Master Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Argue over semantics if you wish but you are purposefully mis-stating the situation. There is no economic difference between a company paying taxes at a discounted rate, or the company paying the given rate and then receiving a refunded credit. A credit-eligible oil or gas outfit will pay taxes at a lower rate than your local coffee shop assuming the same level of income. This is an example of subsidized tax policy directed toward one business relative to another. Or if you wish to play semantics one could say that it's a direct government penalty to one un-favored business over another. It doesn't have to be an oil company to be true.
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