Ketogenic Transition & Heart Rate

yeah it's your body telling you to knock that s*** off ASAP. Seriously though a big jump in resting heart rate usually means overtraining or sickness. Probably from inadequate recovery due to inadequate carbohydrates.

asfsdaf wrote:

yeah it's your body telling you to knock that s*** off ASAP. Seriously though a big jump in resting heart rate usually means overtraining or sickness. Probably from inadequate recovery due to inadequate carbohydrates.

Yes, I don't see how this can be a good thing. I was thinking about the overtraining response as well. Who knew low-carb would generate the same kind of stress? I mean, this is crazy. I am getting winded just by jogging. I have heard this "carbohydrate intolerance" test is a great way to shift your metabolism but I am getting skeptical to say the least.

Earnest wrote:

I have heard this "carbohydrate intolerance" test is a great way to shift your metabolism

Not sure if that applies to faster runners b/c they are generally already pretty fat-adapted.

the porcupine saddle wrote:

Not sure if that applies to faster runners b/c they are generally already pretty fat-adapted.

Right, that is what I was thinking. I know that Maffetone has used this method successfully but I think most of the subjects were slower than 9:00 m/m to begin with.

What about this?

http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/1/7.full

The article is interesting and does provide some compelling points (I skimmed it). However, if you are going to transition fast like this, you need to do it gradually and decrease your mileage. I strictly reduced carbs one summer training for cross country, sometimes I would get so tired I would have to stop from light headedness at the top of a hill. I did get faster, but I always felt terrible. The next year I went for more of a balanced diet and was able to sustain a much higher training load. Glycogen replenished means you can go farther faster (usually).

Earnest wrote:

Could someone please explain the physiology behind the huge increased I have noticed in my heart rate since reducing my daily carbohydrates from 300-500g to 5-50g (and these all from vegetables)? I have been doing this for two weeks now.

My resting HR used to be 39-41. Now it is 58-65.

My pace at 155 HR used to be 5:55 m/m. Now it is 8:10 m/m.

Is this an indication that a low-carbohydrate diet is less than ideal (at least for my metabolic profile)?

I was under the impression this dietary change would lead to greater endurance by shifting my metabolism toward fat but I am just not seeing it.

Thanks.

Did you or anyone else ever figure out a solution to this? I'm one week into a keto diet (no, I'm not convinced it's a good idea but I wanted to give it a try) and I'm having the same thing--resting HR has gone from low 40s to high 50s, and to keep my HR under 149, which is what I usually do my daily mileage at, I can only do a slow jog. Not sure whether to stick it out for a few more weeks or give up now...

FWIW other stuff online suggests it could be a magnesium or potassium deficiency, but I've been taking a magnesium supplement and eating what I thought was plenty of potassium.

Ketogenic whatever is nonsense used to disguise doping.

Eat a rich, varied diet and everything will improve.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Ketogenic whatever is nonsense used to disguise doping.

Eat a rich, varied diet and everything will improve.

No doubt it would, but first I'd like to see if I can make the ketogenic thing work. The massive weight loss could be a nice bonus for a marathon...

I don't know about heart rate but when I did keto

I found it hard to go fast and couldn't sprint

(I'd guess my heart rate was similarly high at a slower speed)

I did get the other benefits though like a bit of weight loss, reduced hunger, no afternoon energy crash and my endurance didn't improve but I did do long rides without fuel and though I didn't bonk I didn't feel amazing either

Thanks. I have to say, with all the work this diet takes, I'd really like to feel amazing for it to be worth it!

Remember, you burn fat in a carbohydrate flame. Just like everything else, nutrition is individual, with low-carb ketogenic diet you have to be careful so you don't reach The point where you are exhausted and can barely run.

Alan

also trying keto wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Ketogenic whatever is nonsense used to disguise doping.

Eat a rich, varied diet and everything will improve.

No doubt it would, but first I'd like to see if I can make the ketogenic thing work. The massive weight loss could be a nice bonus for a marathon...

Massive weight loss is doping related. Beta-3 antagonists. Get a prescription and TUE for asthma meds. IOC sports abuse them like crazy and have been for years.

Try cutting the fast and easy carbs out if you haven't already.

also trying keto wrote:

Thanks. I have to say, with all the work this diet takes, I'd really like to feel amazing for it to be worth it!

Yeah I stopped because too much effort

I have been working on becoming a fat adapted athlete as well and have noticed the same high HR issue. Here is some info I have found.

The transition has several phases. 2-4 days of lethargy and brain fog from reduced carbs. Then 2-3 weeks where you will see greatly diminished performance. You should avoid high intensity during this time since your HR will be much higher at the same intensity as before. Then a few months of steady improvement as you can add back some intensity. 2 years total time to become fully fat adapted.

It is not a quick transition by any means. The overall health benefits seem worth the time for me. When you become fat adapted, it does not mean that you cannot burn carbs. You will run on fat higher up the intensity slope toward your aerobic threshold and save the glycogen for the really high intensity stuff.

There are lots of good podcasts on the subject at Endurance Planet and more good info at Mark's Daily Apple.

Good luck. Study up. Keep in mind it is an investment in better health and will take time.

The first few weeks are the first as your metabolism shifts radically from burning one fuel to another. The attrition rate is high, just like how weak/short-term oriented individuals drop from a quality training program.

The key physiological requirement is to keep up electrolytes. Also up to 100g/day of low-GI carbs (like sweet potato or quinoa) is fine if you are doing decent mileage. Make sure your fats are from clean whole foods (meats, coconut, avocado, pastured dairy), avoid high-polyunsaturated vegetable oils (which are dumped all over everything in restaurants, so avoid).

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/wiki/index

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Ketogenic whatever is nonsense used to disguise doping.

Eat a rich, varied diet and everything will improve.

Yes, wanting to lose 12 lbs really quick is code for a 51 year old dude who really covets his 2nd place age group medals.

"Eat a rich, varied diet" okay simple, I'll do that right after I cure cancer.

Earnest wrote:

Could someone please explain the physiology behind the huge increased I have noticed in my heart rate since reducing my daily carbohydrates from 300-500g to 5-50g (and these all from vegetables)? I have been doing this for two weeks now.

My resting HR used to be 39-41. Now it is 58-65.

My pace at 155 HR used to be 5:55 m/m. Now it is 8:10 m/m.

Is this an indication that a low-carbohydrate diet is less than ideal (at least for my metabolic profile)?

I was under the impression this dietary change would lead to greater endurance by shifting my metabolism toward fat but I am just not seeing it.

Thanks.

OMG why would you even consider ketogenic diet? Who have told you that fat would be a better fuel source? Infact you are risking not only your running but also your health.

If you want to run fast you need less fat and more carbs. The only downside of carbs is that they are limited and you need to uptake a lot of them regulary.

P.S. By carbs I don't mean sucking in refined sugar and fructose-glucose syrup. That's another wrong assumption. What I really mean is the carbs that humans have taken in for thousands of years -- TRUE carbs that nature has made -- fruits, oatmeal, rice, whole grains. About year ago I removed from my diet all the refined sugar completely (yes, no cookies, no ice-creams, no chocolate and no shit), and I have never looked back. In fact the best you can have for carbo loading are oatmeal and rice -- they beat pasta second to none.

1977 called and wants their nutrition advice back.