Key workouts indicating sub4

En la frontera wrote:[/b

As I teeter on dipping under one of my lifelong goals (currently at 4.02)...I was hoping that some of the heavy hitters here on the board might share some of their key workouts in the sharpening phase that gave them the confidence to think they were really ready prior to their breaking 4 for the first time. J.Rinaldi...Hesch...oldsub4...Lurker...

-i.e. "I came back from that climbing holiday to run those 10x400 in 58 secs. It was then that my confidence rose, and made me believe that breaking 4 minutes was indeed possible." -R. Bannister

Bro you need a coach! Dont f**k a round out here selfcoaching. That is why, so many guys are f**king slow.

Bump.

6x550s at sub 4 pace (averaged 58.2 for the 440 split but slowed a little so I probably came in right on pace) 110 slow jog rest in between those.

jog 1 mile

880 in 1:56

I went under by a good deal though so you could probably clock 1:59-2:00 on the 800 and still get by.

I posted some of my training basics in another thread.

There are a few different types of workouts that indicate the type of fitness needed for going under 4:00.

The ability to comfortably run 5-8 miles (true tempo effort) averaging under 5:00 pace is a great indicator of aerobic fitness. Can be one tempo run or long tempo intervals with short rest (like 3x3200 w/2:00 rest).

Something like 20x200 averaging 29.0 - 29.5ish with 200m rest (:50 - :55s) will show you've got good speed endurance.

Being able to go mid/low 50's for a 400m shows you've got the basic speed.

Don't get wrapped up in one workout. There's a lot of things that go into a fast mile, but you already know that being 4:02.

This is exactly what I was talking about. I sincerely appreciate the contribution!

Incidentally, I think I do know you...3.57 first time under, right?

Usedabe- what about the classic 8-10x400m? 59 secs with equal rest?

Actually Roger did 10 X 440 yards...on cinders.

You got me!

I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP, as I ran 3:47 last year and have bumped up the training this time around. In any expert's opinion am I closer or farther from sub4?

In the last few weeks I've done:

Aerobic endurance: 7 mile tempo in just under 35 minutes. 80-85mpw every week for months.

Speed endurance: 8x5x200m (i.e. 40x200m) in 29-31s w/100m jog and 400m jog between sets. 12x400m averaging 60 w/200m fast jog (~60-70s rest). (In trainers).

Basic speed: 24.1 200m at the end of a hard workout.

Never did it myself (and I don't think I could have done it if I tried), plenty of people claim it's a good indicator though. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to run 'indicating' workouts since they tend to amount to a race effort when you could have just run a workout and gotten better - not just tested your fitness. Work on different areas of your overall fitness (aerobic, speed) and race like a madman.

If this isn't a joke you should have no problem. But everyone is different, I suppose. If I did those workouts and had that 200m speed, I'd be confident for a 3:56 or better.

"For a miler, other than racing there were 4 workouts that helped me peak. One was the 1000-600-400-200 ladder at faster than race pace with a decent amount of rest in between. Another was a 1200 alone with no pace help, followed by 3*400 faster than race pace. lastly would be just 4*400m around 2 seconds faster than race pace with 3min recovery. By far the workout that was the burner, that really told you were you were, was 3*800m with 800 jog in between. race pace +4 seconds, race pace, race pace - 4 seconds. I can remember thinking from some shorter interval work that i had done fast that i might be in 336 shape, and I did the 3*800 in 200, 156, and then totally blew up and ran 200 again....surely enough i was in 340 shape...I saw someone knock this out in 156, 152, 147 and they ran 331....fairly good "cut through the BS" workout.

For 800m, you have to do the 600-400-200-200-200 workout faster than race pace. Another workout that i liked was 2*400m faster with only 5 min rest...like for a 1:50 800m guy you might do both in 49-50. Lastly would be 5 or 6*300m with 500m jog at faster than race pace....

Last 7 days you turn down both the volume and intensity...these workouts are for 10-20 days away from the championship event. You really only need 2-3 workouts like this per season plus a few races to zip you up...then it is just rest and running fresh than makes you hit a peak."

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719&page=49#ixzz1pci4CCNl

I've never broken 4 mins, so read in to this as you will (did run 3:40).

The one sessions I got the most confidence out for was; 1200 (62/60/58) for 3:00, slow lap jog, 4x400 in 58/59 (wt 60sec rec), another slow lap jog, 1x400 fast (50.1 was my best ever for this session). This sessions showed me that I could easily handle 3:00 at 1200 and then run a good last 300m. I did this exact session three weeks before running my 3:40.60 and had splits of 60.2/61.4/61.3/37.7.

I think the main point is to find a workout that is both meaningful (in terms of both intensity and volume) and repeat that workout a number of times over a season and for number of years (much like Seb Coe did with his 6x800m workout he did on the same road from a 12 year old right thru to a 30 years old). Progression doesn't always have to expressed in the raw times each repeat is run in, it can also come from the ease at which you run the workout. For the workout above, I only really tapped out in the last 400...the rest of the workout was rather comfortable.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate each and every one of these posts! I'm taking notes, and really developing some ideas. PCRG- I'd say you are spot on RIGHT NOW. Again, to all of you: THANK YOU. Hopefully, this will become a further productive thread regarding sub4 training...

i love justin...jogs the first three and kills a 300. i'm not sure i've ever broke 40, even in workouts.

so back in the "heyday," rubio just made it simple for me. starting out small, building up.

15x200 w/ 200jog> 20x200 w 200jog (quicker jog this time)

then 3x4x300 w/ 100jog/3min on sets> 3x5x300 (same rec)>4x4x300

then 8x400 w/ 1min> 10x400> 12x400

then 5x600> 8x600

only one time did i ever get to do the 4x800, and i couldn't even finish. it was on my trip to Wisco, a bit windy. hit 1:59, 1:59, 59 and stopped. 4min between, halfway through the 3rd one i chickened out and turned the last 2 into 4x400 w/ 75s rec. still averaged sub 60 for everything, ran 3:40 two weeks later.

basically when i could handle approx 3.6-4.4k worth of work (in NO LESS than 400m increments), w/ short rest, I knew i was in sub 4 shape. of course we were also sprinkling hill reps, tempos, mile reps, the occasional 14x400 at 5k pace (gosh i loved those days, felt so easy compared to mile pace!)

pretty simple really. biggest thing, IMO, is picking a plan/progression and sticking with it. you CAN'T come on here and "pick and choose" from what sounds "good" or "fun." you'll will nearly always find the greatest chance of success with starting at a certain point (like your CURRENT fitness, NOT your goal fitness) and progressing in realistic increments. Rubio had me start right close to 60 pace (i think he allowed the first few to be 31s/46-47s as we started out w/ short, easy workouts) but remember that sometimes we'd start with as little as 12x200m.....yeah, that's stupid simple, anyone can do that, but 5mos down the road, i'm going 10x400 @58-59, 4x(600 @90, 100jog, 300 @42), 4xMi @ 4:25, etc......

best of luck buddy.

cheers, dude-

I appreciate the advice, SRD. I like the progression concept. Training myself the last two years on my own, it might not sound like a good idea, but I'm always open to injecting new ideas into an already basic pattern.

Incidentally, I did 4 x 1200 today @ 3.12 avg.- last in 3.07, with 4 minutes rest.

this thread is awesome. bumping and taking copious notes.

No, this wasn't a joke. My coach has me work on different systems during each workout. Mondays are medium intervals, Wednesdays are short intervals, and Saturdays are long tempos.I haven't raced in a really long time and I don't quite know what to expect. Until then I'm just trying to not get injured while keeping up the workouts. The guy I do most of my longer stuff with is a ~28:20/13:40 10k/5k guy while the guys I do shorter stuff with are 1:46 800m guys. Either way I'm embarrassingly outclassed whenever I show up to practice. (Especially in the shorter intervals). As such it's hard to really gauge the level I'm at individually. Thanks for the input.

usedabe wrote:

If this isn't a joke you should have no problem. But everyone is different, I suppose. If I did those workouts and had that 200m speed, I'd be confident for a 3:56 or better.

asfsdafsda wrote:

this thread is awesome. bumping and taking copious notes.

Same, bump.