Was Vanderlei Cordeiro de Lima better than Meb in 04' Athens Olympic Games?

I remember that he picked up the pace right after the attack. Now, you could say that it didn't hurt him, he picked up the pace and then was caught by Baldini.

BUT, you could also say that the attack caused a rush of adrenalin that caused him to pick up the pace and then he dies as a result of that untimely move.

There is no question in my mind that Vanderlei de Lima would have won the Olympic marathon had that idiot not knocked him down.

My recollection is that the concensus was de Lima was fading and probably would have been caught by Meb anyway. Not certain, but I thought de Lima said so himself at that time. Maybe he was just being gracious.

For what it's worth Meb beat quite a few guys who looked better on paper that day.

There is no question in my mind that he would have finished in the same place whether tackled or not.

J.R. wrote:

There is no question in my mind that Vanderlei de Lima would have won the Olympic marathon had that idiot not knocked him down.

No question? Really?

I was tracking the time gap during the race, and was pretty confident that he was going to get caught. And, once caught, I doubt that he would have been successful in fighting off Baldini, who was very strong. But it was still a horrible thing that happened, ruining an exciting race, tarnishing Baldini's victory, and perhaps altering the placings.

Any detailed splits info?

Barakus Obama wrote:

Any detailed splits info?

Here's one fairly detailed account of the race:

Seeing the splits...It's very close...maybe the silver medalist could have been decided in the stadium lap.

Boy, you people have short memories.

Right afterwards de Lima was complaining that he would won gold without the assault.

To placate him the IOC gave him a special medal of courage......don't you all remember that?

Yea no kidding, short memories indeed.

First of all, I think its actually rather disrespectful to spout conjecture that De Lima wasn't that affected by the attack and would have been beaten anyway.

Watch the tape again, the guy gets slammed right into his side, and is forced off the road. He was put under duress in every physical, emotional, and psychological way in that incident. How can you possibly say "oh it didn't affect much, he would have been caught anyway".

De Lima was running a brilliant race, and nobody in this forum knows of the kind of emotional high comes from knowing you are that close to winning the Olympic Marathon, especially one as particularly momentous as Athens. Nobody can say "oh he was laboring, Baldini was too strong".

Sorry, I simply find this whole discussion insulting to what happened to De Lima.

There is never any way of knowing, maybe he would have fell later on before he finished, maybe he would have completely died, and maybe he would have gotten such a high to keep him going that last few miles and take olympic gold. It isn't putting Baldini or Meb's performance down at all to say that De Lima was having his best day and was headed for the win, so just leave this topic alone.

I do run run run wrote:

It isn't putting Baldini or Meb's performance down at all to say that De Lima was having his best day and was headed for the win, so just leave this topic alone.

I suppose people can differ about what it means to "put down" someone's performance, but saying that de Lima was "headed for the win" suggests, to me, that Baldini wasn't. And I just don't think that's true.

I do belive that de Lima lost time, and perhaps place, as a result of the attack. Particularly under those circumstances -- over 21 miles into the most important race of his life, with challenging weather and course conditions, and with a world-class field giving chase -- it's hard to believe that he wasn't significantly affected, and I thought that it was remarkable that he was able to gather his senses and deal with the attack as well as he did.

This is the answer.

Avocado's Number wrote:

saying that de Lima was "headed for the win" suggests, to me, that Baldini wasn't.

Baldini was almost 2 minutes back and headed for 2nd place at that point.

A simple push could affect so many distance athletes.

Ask Solinsky in Eurocircuit. He wasn't capable to comeback to the track and "the push" was so little seeing it on TV.

no suggestion necessary wrote:

Baldini was almost 2 minutes back and headed for 2nd place at that point.

No, he wasn't. He was less than forty seconds back. Having given de Lima a sizeable lead, Baldini, Meb, and one or two others from the chase pack were just starting to crank up the pace to go after him. Looking at the runners' respective speeds just prior to the attack, as well as the rate of change in the runners' respective speeds, it seemed unlikely that de Lima would hold them all off. And it was pretty clear in the ensuing miles that Baldini was much stronger than anyone else out there.

It was an unfortunate incident for both de Lima, who was left to wonder what might have been, and Baldini, who was deprived of an untarnished victory.

Avocado's Number wrote:

it seemed unlikely that de Lima would hold them all off.

Huh? They only passed de Lima in the last couple of miles.

Of course Vanderlei would have won. No question about it.

Regarding the splits, my recollection is that de Lima took the lead around 1/2 way, and continued to gradually pull AWAY from the field, until he was knocked down by the idiot. So he was pulling AWAY from Bandini and Meb. Besides that he was on cruise mode, with quite a substandial lead, running in to victory on his own. If you have mile by mile splits to the contrary then feel free to post them.

I just watched the videotape of the portion of the race during which de Lima was attacked. Baldini (with Tergat and Meb in tow) was only 28 seconds (not 38 seconds as reported elsewhere) behind de Lima at the 35k mark (de Lima in 1:50:08, Baldini and Tergat in 1:50:36, Meb in 1:50:37). De Lima's lead was shrinking dramatically. De Lima was attacked shortly before the 36k mark. Baldini covered the last 7.2k in 20:19, which is absurdly fast, although there was a net elevation loss of about 450 feet over the last 10k.

Several of Baldini's training partners were caught cheating. But that type of associative guilt is only good on dark-skinned runners.

What Italian runners? Di Cecco?