Martin Fagan positive for EPO.

Unreal. Yeah agree that Martin's head has been all over the place... Sad to see this tho.

but Dr Jones, many EPO positives were for CERA, the artificial marker caught them

Honestly it sounds as if Mr. Fagan had an unlucky test, and that he has a better conscience than most. Let's be real, mos t pro's dope. Mr. Fagan probably struggled with this decision, and when he was discovered admitted to it readily.

No surprise really. I would be shocked to find an elite pro (i.e., Olympic Caliber) who didn't dope with something. Get over it.

haha yo (cut da check) wrote:

I hope this isn't true because Fagan's a good guy...

Well - if it is true then he's probably not a "good guy". Unless your definition of good guys includes cheats.

'hang on a minute' I am not disputing the test just yet as I don't know the full details. I am however disputing the incorrect information given about 'false positives'. If this does reflect the opinion of WADA, which i doubt, the it is worrying. Read the following

The key points, based on Peltre and Thormann's recommendations published in March, 2003

False EPO positives can arise from proteinuria, if an athlete produces certain types of proteins after intense exercise that the test picks up.

The antibody used is not specific enough, meaning that it will identify non-EPO proteins as EPO.

Different labs can give different results for the same sample, sometimes calling a negative a positive, and vice versa.

There can be a large variability in results, even when the same lab does the testing

WADA changed the test criteria from quantitative to qualitative wihtout any scientific validation.

A new "two-dimensional" EPO test is undergoing validation studies at the moment to iron out the flaws of the first one.

WADA doesn't believe that it can be sued by athletes who wrongly tested positive. It maintains that the test has given valid results in the past.

Fagan is a sincere nice guy...but if positive that will turn into a "was" and will now only be known as a cheat unfortunately. Would be a sad end to a creer that seemed so promising in the past.

haha yo (cut da check) wrote:

I believe Bernard Lagat tested positive on an A sample back in 2003 but was negative for the B sample....this was almost 10 years ago though

Lagat's case was a procedural issue. Both samples had been improperly stored.

As far as Fagan's case, if this is true it is truely sad. Using EPO these days reaks of just plain depseration. EPO is easier to come by, but there are better and harder to detect drugs available now.

So Fagan is a nice guy so it is ok for him to have doped?

Also are we supposed to believe that Fagan just recently took a decision to start doping. Surely it is more likely that he has been doping for a while and just managed to mess up his micro dosing routine.

Did i say it was ok to dope??

No excuses, but i would say it is more a case that Martin just gave into desperation. Has always been a talented runner which just makes it harder to try understand what has happened.

Anyway, it doesn't look good for him.

I don't think his talent is in question. He was doping to make the Olympic A standard. If most cases like this tell us anything it wasn't out of desperation it was most likely his normal routine leading up to a major race.

Well I could be wrong, and hope I am. But to me I think it was a case of despeation. Think he was good enough to get there without the need for epo. Anyway I'm sure we'll find out more over next few days...

I don't know Martin and won't comment on whether I think he is a good guy or not. A doper is a doper. That being said, I do give him credit for stepping up to admit it rather than go the normal route. His stock will further rise if he will sit down with a major source and tell his story and expose the massive flow of shit that is going on in the distance community.

In the end, it will do more good than harm to know the truth.

It's IMHO more "a case of" brainlessness because "everyone else does it and I'm not the going to be the dumb honest one".

I'm going out on a limb to say that 50% of the cheats would not dope if they knew for sure that everyone else is clean.

I notice this story has not made the front page of letsrun yet..must be a brojo fav.

Lets see how long it takes for them to start calling him a "drug cheat"...

Evidence is overwhelming as is the confession.

Does this explain his heat issues @ Chicago, dropping out a mere mile from the finish? Isn't one of the side-effects of EPO potential increased health risks if dehydration occurs (and presumably more dramatic effects if it occurs mid-race)?

Wait a minute wrote:

I thought white runners don\' take EPO?

White runners do cheat but when they get caught, everyone on Letsrun says it\'s a shame cuz they are good guys.

On the other hand when black runners perform better than expected, everyone on Letsrun accuses them of being dopers even though they have not had a postive drig test.

Hahahaha, EPO! What kind of outdated, dirt poor, smuck is this guy?? Does he run in Voit shoes as well?

Wow. I think it's pretty easy to guess, but I wonder how long this has been going on. LOL @ "never competing" on ped's. Is he saying that he tried epo for the first time after his national record? That would be convenient.

As far as I know, most athletes using EPO as a proper ped would be clean on competition day. The effects last for the life of a RBC so you probably wouldnt have dosed for weeks prior to a race. Just because it's not in your system doesn't mean youre not competing with the aid of ped's.

Is there seriously not a better option, ped wise, for a mid level elite than epo? I would of thought that it would be a few generations old and that there's a newer low cost blood booster thats tougher to detect.

Mr. Tibbs wrote:

White runners do cheat but when they get caught, everyone on Letsrun says it's a shame cuz they are good guys.

On the other hand when black runners perform better than expected, everyone on Letsrun accuses them of being dopers even though they have not had a postive drig test.

Not just white... they really need to be white and english speaking before letsrun believes their stories and makes excuses for them.

Also, on letsrun we tend to allow some black runners to get away with far more than others... for example in the case of Steve Mullings... now if he was training in Jamaica, everyone would be saying that the runners in his training group are all dirty, but for some reason people don't want to see the elephant in the room and talk about Steve Mullings training partner.

In the case of Fagan, what I'd like to know is this, should I be ranking the McMillian runners he was training with, higher or lower in the 2012 Olympic Marathon Trials prediction competition?

If they are using EPO that helps, but if they are nervous about testing, perhaps I should rank them lower?

According to letsrun folklore, all the Jamaican and African training groups have access to the good stuff that can't be detected. So a bit sad to hear than an athlete that trains with the McMillian group to be stuck in the 1990's.