| ancient runner |
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Here some coach Igloi’s comments:for Jim Grelle”he is great runner.Likes to follow and kick(let someone else lead, then sprint at the end)If he changes, he can dream of a 1500m record.”For Ron Larrieu “he has job as jamtor and can train only one time a day.When he gets another job and can train twice a day, he will run the mile under four minutes”.For Ned Sargent “is a good competitor.Always pushes himself.Develop much in last four years ay running longer distances.Has best chance of our men in the marathon”.For Bob Seaman “he has done mile in 3.58 but doesn’t know the tempo.He doesn’t run economically.In two years, after much work, he shows the best potential of all my boys” |
| Ghost of Igloi |
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My favorite Igloi story goes something like this. We were at the Santa Monica College track for a hard workout. We just finished an easy warm-up, and Igloi called out in a stern voice "spikes!" Usually this was a sign that we were in for a hard workout. One of the young runners asked in a timid voice "what are we doing coach?" Igloi looked at him eye to eye, then replied: "you will rest in peace"...then Igloi pointed to the community cemetery lying across the street from the track..."over there." My next favorite was after an especially hard workout Igloi asked me: "Reid, how do you feel?" I replied: "Coach my legs are really sore." Igloi responds by saying: "I have perfect solution. Get a bucket of warm water, not to hot." He has me on the hook now. Igloi continues: "Put your head in the bucket for 5 or 10 minutes...you will feel no pain." Like many of the great coaches, success was as much the personality of the man, the "art of coaching," as it was his training philosophy. Ghost of Igloi |
| four paws |
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Does anyone have information about a Richard McCallister that might have run for Igloi around 1960. Might have been a 5K guy. |
| ancient runner |
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“Igloi’s training is based on the Freiburg interval principle which today is regarded as outdated.Although it differs from the Freiburg method in quantity and distribution of work , it might not be accepted by the majority of distance coaches.Perhaps we have not yet heard the last word on endurance training and interval principles. Igloi made his first contact with track at the age of 17.At 19 he was the junior pole vault champion of Hungary, and from 1929 to 1933 he studied physical education at the University of Budapest.It was during his studies that Igloi became interested in middle distance running and clocked 2.01.0 for 800m and 4.18.0 for 1500m. In 1933 he had the opportunity to watch the training of Polish distance champion Janis Kusocinski, who used a type of interval training based on 200m. repetitions runs.This gave Igloi an incentive to use the same method in his own workouts , and he made remarkable progress.He became an Olympian in 1936 and reduced his 800m. to 1.53.9, and 1500m. to 3.52.0 and clocked 5.29.0 and 8.28.8 over 2000m. and 3000m. respectively.During a training camp at Vieromaki in Finland, he also gained first-hand experience in fartlek, which he later used in his training method. However, it was Dr. Misangi , under whom Igloi studied at the University of Budapest, who had the strongest influence on the development of his training system.From Misangi, he learned the importance of the long and slow progression required to adapt the athlete to his new tasks.He also learned that a coach has to be more than a computer calculating the daily loads of the athletes. After the war Igloi continued his job as a physical education teacher until finally in 1951 he became a professional coach of a Budapest athletic club.Although he was coaching all events, Igloi made his name in working with distance runners.His athletes set 49 Hungarian, 25 European and 21 world records, and Andras Cseplar, Sandor Iharos, Istvan Rozsavolgyi and Laszlo tabori dominated distance running for many years. After the 1956 Olympics in Melburne ,Igloi went to the UA with Tabori and is now a American citizen.Assisted by Life magazine , he established the Santa Clara Valley Youth Village and with Jim Beatty and Tabori started another era of records.In 1961, his group moved to the south and formed the Los Angeles Track Club.They won 25 AAU titles and set 19 US records.” By Arnd Kruger 1968 Continued…… |
| Skuj |
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I've been chatting with Orville. Due to some technical issues, he asked me to post the following onto this thread. (Sorry about the delay, Orville. Night shift last night.) From Orville: Here are the workouts I did as recorded in my training log for 15 days in the month of April 1966. All workouts were given to me by Coach Mihaly Igloi. As always, he watched me do them. These workouts do not represent the training of any other athlete but are as I recorded them the day I did them. Unless otherwise indicated, all workouts were done on the infield of the track or (usually) on the 600 yard grass oval (sometimes called a big lap) at Dorsey High school in Los Angeles. Every word beyond this point comes from my log. Tues April 12 am-20 laps easy-a few times 150 fresh swing-stay relaxed pm 10 laps easy-10 shakeups-20 x 440 with 220 jog -10 good swing, 10 very hard speed-20 shakeups-"You drive well" Wed April 13 am-25 laps easy (Don't forget that these are 600 yard laps on grass) pm 20 laps easy-10 good shake-ups-10 x 440 with 220 jog-very hard speed-14 shakeups Thurs am-25 big laps-5 easy then 1 220 hard speed buildup every lap pm-10 big laps-15 shake-ups-12 x 880 good swing with 330 jog-14 shakeups Fri am-25 laps, every third lap 1 x 330 fresh pm-20 laps-20 shakeups Sat. 16 am-20 big laps-every second lap 1 x 220 fresh swing-found it difficult-leg very sore-tired pm 2 1/2 mi jog-10 shake ups-4 x (8 x 220 with 110 jog) 1 lap between sets-good speed, 2 sets good swing, good speed-2 lap jog-done with two teammates-then 20 shakeups. I found it very hard-legs are sore and tight-HARD!! Sun. 17 am-The workout was-2 1/2 mile jog-10 shake ups-25 x 440 on track at 67-69 with a 220 jog-2 lap jog & 10 shake ups with two teammates--I ran behind in 72-74 except the last 3--last one was 67. Igloi was angry--"You can learn a lot from today. The mind must rule the body not the body rule the mind" Mon 18 am-20 laps-every second lap 2 x 220 fresh swing buildup pm-10 laps-10 shake ups-(10 x 220 good speed with 110 jog) x 3 with a 2 lap jog between sets-10 shakeups Tues 19 am-25 laps-every second lap 1 x 330 good speed pm 15 laps-14 shakeups-12 x 1,000 yd (2 1/2 laps) hard swing with 440 jog-10 shakeups Wed 20-am-20 laps easy-10 shakeups pm-90 min easy-10 shakeups (don't forget that we are still on the 600 yard grass oval) Thurs am- 20 laps-10 easy then 1 x 220 hard swing in each lap pm-15 laps-10 shake-ups-20 x 260 very hard speed with 180 jog between-10 shake- ups Fri am- 30 laps easy pm-10 laps-15 shake-ups-6 x 880 hard swing with 440 jog-20 shakeups Sat 20 laps-1 easy, 2 fresh swing pm-10 laps-15 shake-ups-20 x 330 good speed with 220 jog-14 shake-ups-legs very sore Sun 24-am 90 min at USC-30 min easy, 30 min fresh swing, 30 min easy-20 shakeups Mon am-20 laps-1 easy, 1 fresh swing pm-10 laps-10 shake ups-12 x 880 with 440 jog-6 good speed, 6 good swing-14 shakeups Tues am-20 laps easy-10 shakeups pm-20 laps easy-20 shake ups |
| Bob Schul |
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It has been mentioned that Igloi used 100's at the end of the workout. He did, as well as between sets. There were times when I was training with him that he would have everyone do twenty times 100 meters (All out)That meant from the very first step and the interval was three steps and three steps back and go again. The athletes who were with him at that time did not back off and it was excruciating. You could hear the screams from some as they started each one. I only have used it one time and that was with Bret Hyde (8:25.39 steeple), who didn't need it but was used to show two others that they could put more of themselves into their races. Both men ran good races later. Greg Reynolds (3:40.3) and Rich Block (3:59.7)I believe the exercise showed both runners they could push themselves much harder. Igloi started the swing and speed in 1962 I believe. It was an experiment. Swing was over striding by bringing the hips around in an unnatural movement. Speed was a short quick step which was used for distances of 200 meters or less. I tell the story in my autobiography when I returned to Miami in the fall of 1963 and the coach wanted to train me. That lasted about two weeks as he didn't show for most of the morning workouts. (They were being run at 5:30 a.m., so I don't know why he had a problem.)Anyway during those two weeks during cross country training he told me to run two 800 meters on a slightly hilly golf course in speed tempo. I asked him if he was sure.His answer was "Igloi had his athletes do it." It did no good when I explained that the distances were shorter. Anyway I ran them in 1:58. and 1:59., but it was very tiring and was another reason I decided to train myself. Orville, send me an email. |
| perspective |
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In high school, at a very young age, my coach was Jack Marden, who I believe was trained by Igloi for a while. Certainly many of the patterns of sets that you describe were evident in our training. May I ask you, from today's vantage point, what, if anything would consider changing if you were now competing in today's environment? Parenthetically, I'd like to add that it was such a thrill watching you win the US trials and then go on to win the Olympic Games. I'm not so sure that even today's crop could run a final 400 as well as you were doing 40 years ago. |
| Ghost of Igloi |
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In 1969, I believe I have the year correct, I met Tamas Igloi, Mihaly Igloi's son at a Christmas Party hosted by Coach Igloi and his wife. Tamas was an engineering student at UCLA at the time. From this information I was able to contact Tamas who is a successful engineer with Teledyne Corporation in the Los Angeles area. I told Tamas how much his father did for me when I was a young man. I also told Tamas that the discipline his father gave to me thrives today in my children. Tamas said his father would enjoy hearing that since Coach Igloi felt coaching should provide direction for young people. Tamas's mother and his sister still live in Southern California. I sent my regards to Mrs. Mihaly Igloi who I recall as a very beautiful and sweet person. I remember her telling us that she would not see her husband for days at a time because he would arrive late from the track, and was up early in the morning before she was up. I remember one workout in particular that I finished after 8:30pm (more than 3 hours), and I was back at the track by 5:30am. A coach's wife and family sacrifices a lot for sport. I sent Tamas a link to this post, which I trust he will enjoy. Ghost of Igloi |
| ancient runner |
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“How does Igloi’s training differ from other distance runners?Each training dose is set by Igloi individually for each athlete.The athlete trains under the observing eye of his coach, who makes necessary adjustments according to his observations.For this reason , the training is carried out only on the track(cinder or grass). The training is based on the interval principle which differs from the Freiburg method on two major points-quantity and distribution.To allow for a constantly increased training intensity and load, the repetitions are conducted in series and different distances are used for active recoveries. In principle , all athletes train alone.This rule is bypassed only for time-tials and on especially hard training days when stronger runners assist the weather. It is impossible to give a picture of an average Igloi training plan.He has over 40,000 different ones.However I watched some of Igloi’s students at Santa Monica College track in action and left wondering how the human body can stand it. A normal workout lasts about three hours and starts with a 5 mile wamup run, followed by 15 long accelerations with jog back recoveries before the real work begins.At 13-year old girl, for example, performed after the warmup 4 series of 6*400m. with 200m. recovery jogs, and 10 fast 100m. sprints between each series.She covered in one workout over 13 miles.One of the male athlete followed the same warmup with five series of 12*400m. with 200m. recovery jogs.Between each series , he executed one rather brisk 1200m. run.He covered about 28 miles during this session and in addition 1.1/2-2 hours in the morning every day of the week.A 30-hour week is regarded as normal.” Continued…… |
| ancient runner |
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When Igloi was in Greece-almost 18 years-rarely made some mention about his family.After 6 months discussing and talking together(usually i asked him and he replied to me like a father-teacher and mostly like the ancient wise men)strted to talk me about his family.He told me about his son -this time was in China as engineer-his grand son was a good violin player-about his girl and about his wife.His life here in Greece was real spartan.A small apartment with no comfort.I met also one of his brother from Hungary.When he stoped coaching he had great desire to go back in Hungary.His dream was to train again Hungarian athletes despite he was 80-tear old. |
| steepleguy |
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Hey, what were the PRs of most recent SMTC coaches, Joe Douglas and Merele McGee, back when they ran in the '60s. |
| historian |
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give me 20 laps, fresh....no questions asked. |
| Tinman |
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Hi Bob! I just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your books. I didn't understand the training as well as I would like, but it was quite interesting. Also, I appreciate very much your contributions to our understanding of the Igloi and interval training method you used later. Thank you, Tinman - runfastcoach@gmail.com |
| ancient runner |
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“Igloi compares his athletes with violin players preparing for an important concert.They repeat the same piece thousands of times, repeat parts of it, and are for hours occupied with their task.The runner who prepares for an important meet cannot get bored running around on the circular track.Like the artist, he has an important aim-to play the first violin in the concert of the world’s best trackmen. One of Igloi’s ex-runners compares him like Attila, who requested obedience from the Mongols.He assured to take them to the promised land thousands of miles away.Those who believed in him covered the distance in many hard stretches (interval principle_ and the land Attila had promised.But there is a need for enormous will-power and belief to avoid being left on the road.Igloi, the short man with the sparkling eyes, does the same.He promises success , and the success of his best athletes gives him , to some degree, the right to make some promises. Igloi’s methods have often been discussed , but his training plans have never been published with explanations.Igloi himself is usually silent.His only work covering his training principles was published as a part of the book “Atletika” in 1956.To my Knowledge, it has never been translated. When asking about his method, one is met with silence because the “system” can’t be parted from the person Igloi.The person knows how to use it, he improves it constantly and understands how it leads to success.” Arnd Kruger |
| ancient runner |
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Even I don’t think that is quite right to give a training program if you don’t have all of the proper parameters.Especially the training schedule of coach Igloi never was the same and it depends from the athlete, his at moment shape the track or weather condition.Anyway let me give you a weekly training program of a 18-year old man who run at that time 3.45 the 1500m. on July 1987 to compare with the above 20 years earlier. MONa.m.10laps+10laps(5*(100gr+150tar)+5*(100gr+120tar))+4*(300gr-250tar-300gr-250tar-300gr-250tar-300gr)+8laps*(100fast-100fast-100all) p.m.10laps+10*100easy+3*(2*120+150)+2*(2*150+120)tar 1lapgr+600gr-3setsof 3*400(58-60) in every set 300gr+5*150gr+300gr-1lapgr+600gr-2*(200fast+180veryfast) 2laps easy TUEa.m.10laps+7laps*(100gr+120tar)3*6*200tar-6laps(100f+100vf+100f+100all) 1lap+3*180f p.m.10laps+10*100easy+7*100gr+2*120tar+4*150tar+2*120tar-600gr-4sets of (400(59)-3*200gr-400(58))/every set 1lap-600gr-180vf+250f+2*180vf-2laps WEDa.m.15laps+7*100gr+600gr+120tar+150tar+120tar-2*600gr+120tar+150tar+120tar+600gr+12*100(gr-tar) p.m.15laps+2*7*100gr+600gr+500tar+2*600gr+500tar+600gr+3*100tar+200tar+5*100gr+400(54)+5*100tar+2laps THUa.m.10laps+9laps(2*100gr+4*120tar+2*100gr+4*150tar+2*100gr+4*120tar)-10laps(3laps(100f-100vf)+300tar+2laps(100f-100vf)+300tar+3laps(100f-100vf)) p.m.10laps+10*100easy+4*3*100(gr-tar)+5*120tar+2*3*200tar+5*120tar+600gr+400(56)+4*200tar+400(55)+600gr+4*500tar+600gr+400(56)+4*200tar+400(55)+1lap+3*120all+2laps FRIa.m.25laps(after 15thlap3*(120+150+120)gr p.m.15laps+10*100easy+7*100gr+3*600gr+6*200f+7*100gr+2laps SATa.m.10laps+10laps(5laps(100gr-120tar)+5laps(100gr-150tar)every 4th,8th 250tar) 10laps(5laps(100gr-150tar)5laps(100f-100vf)every 4th,8th 250tar) p.m.10laps+10*100easy+5*100gr+120tar+5*100gr+120tar+3*600gr+1lap+400(51)+5*100f+2laps SUNa.m.50min easy Note:gr=grass, tar=tartan, the 120 were speed-up, 150 good speed,200-500 swing,180 all out.On the grass fresh and on time were only the 400. |
| former smtc guy |
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agreed....it is just 'pieces of the puzzle', impossible to take out of a whole 12 month cycle....and things could change within that cycle from time to time depending on the runner. |
| ancient runner |
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“When I first walked onto the track where Mihaly Igloi was busy training runners back in 1959, he looked at me and said, “Ho, the fat boy.” “I want to go to the Olympics,” I told him. “Ho,” he inquired, “have you money for the ticket?” It wasn’t an unfair question.I had been a good but not a great runner at the University of North Carolina.In the two years after college I had done a little running and was overweight.But I was confident that with the right training I could run well.And Igloi was the world’s greatest running coach. As we talked he told me , over and over, shaking his finger at me , that it would be difficult.I would be running twice a day, 20 miles a day.He would drive me. “Every day a hard training must make” he said .Then he agreed to take me on. On my first day of training , Igloi explained things. “Must not discourage, must encourage.Must be patient.” He is patient and painstaking, designing programs differentely for each runner.And he has a brain like a Univac.At our daily workouts he knows all, sees all and plans all.Most of us in the club work out twice a day, before dawn and again after dark on weekdays. I’ll walk up and he’ll yell, “Ah, Jim, finished warm ups,yah.Then do 10 times 100yards easy speed, and five 100yards shake-up speed.Then three 440s, good swing tempo.Two times 880 easy speed, then 220 jog.Sixteen times 150 hard speed.” I go do what he says and go back for more instructions.He takes mental notes on how I perform, my attitude, the condition of the track, the weather.When he gets home he records it.Each day when I go to the track , I know I’ll have workouts that I ‘ve never done before and neve will do again. Igloi alone decides when, where and what I will run.Once ha had made up his mind and planned the training schedule for specific competition, he keeps to his plan.No other coach knows as much as Igloi on works as hard.It is amazing, a man 54 years old getting up at 5 a.m. every day and working through till 8 every night. Usually when I run I never see Igloi.He is hidden somewhere, watching, reserving judgment until after the race.But last summer when I was running two mile race in which I set the world’s record, he was jumping and yelling near the finish line, shouting in Hungarian to me.Afterward, he smiled like a proud father.The next day ,Sunday, I was working out at 8 a.m.” By James Beatty 1962 |
| ancient runner |
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Dedicated to Laszlo Tabori From “Sport s Illustrated” 1955 by David Mayer “On May 27, Iharos and his sorter ,stockier, curly-haired friend,Tabori, flew into London for the annual British Games at White City Stadium.The flight from Budapest made them both airsick.As a result Iharos decided not to run in the mile race the next day, although Tabori decided he would………………….. Tabori was at the time only the third-ranking 1500-meter man in Hungary and had hardly ever run the mile before. “I know only vaguely what the mile distance is” he said later, after the race. On top of everything else it had rained hard the night before, and the track seemed slow.The English crowd grumbled.What they had expected to be the big race of the Games would probably be the big disappointment. They were as wrong as they could be.What they saw was one of the greatest mile races in history.Tabori, Chataway and Hewson all run the mile in less than four minutes, and this barely a year after Banister had first burst past the great barrier. Tabori ran third through the 59.9-second first lap behind Alan Gordon, who was in the race as pace setter and Chataway.Hewson was a closed fourth.Gordon still led at the half mile in a sparkling 2:00.8, a good stride ahead of youthful Hewson, who had moved up into second place.Chataway and Tabori were third and fourth, close behind Hewson. On the backstretch of the third lap Gordon faltered and Hewson swept by into the lead, driving ahead, as Norris McWhirter report in Athletics World, “because with amazing confidence he thought that he could run away to win under four minutes” Hewson led at ¾ mile mark in 3:02.This time was excellent in itself, but if a four minutes mile were to be achieved the last quarter mile would have to be run less than 58 seconds.And Chataway and Tabori, second and third, were three and four yards back of Hewson. The last lap produced everything that could have been demanded of it.It was run in less than 58 seconds and by all three men.It provides a tremendous finish and it proved the valid of what Norris McWhirter calls mile-running’s two “Laws of Acceleration”. “Entering the back straight” McWhirter wrote, “Tabori closed up and Chataway put on an unsustained tactical kick.He who accelerates twice is lost.Coming off the last turn Tabori, who had lain third while Hewson and Charaway were rubbing shoulders, moved late and decisively from behind, only 50 yards from home.He who accelerates from behind wins” Tabori challenged Chataway and Hewson on the last turn, and Chataway, seeing him,tried to increase his own effort and pass Hewson.”A mistake”, he said later, “trying to pass on the bend.Wrong.”But Tabori, heedless of the extra yardage, passed both Chataway and Hewson in a tremendous burst of speed and came into the home stretch in front.He broke the tape five yards ahead of Chataway, who was barely inches in front of Hewson.Tabori was timed in 3:59, both Englishmen in 3:59.8 That phenomenal mile race sent Tabori’s name racing around the world” The Hungarian assault World records as of May 1 1955 1000m. 2:19.5 Boysen Norway 1500m. 3:41.8 Landy Australia 1 mile 3.58 Landy Australia 2000m. 5:07 Reif Belgium 3000m. 7:58.8 Reif Belgium 2 miles 8:40.4 Reif Belgium 3 miles 13:26.4 Kuc U.S.S.R 5000m. 13:51.2 Kuc U.S.S.R 6000m. 15:21.2 (relay) Hungary World records as of Nov 1955 1000m. 2:19. Boysen Norway Rozsavolgyi Hungary 1500m. 3:40.8 Iharos Hungary Tabori Hungary 1 mile 3.58 Landy Australia 2000m. 5:02.2 Rozsavolgyi Hungary 3000m. 7:55.6 Iharos Hungary 2 miles 8:33.4 Iharos Hungary 3 miles 13:14.2 Iharos Hungary 5000m. 13:40.6 Iharos Hungary 6000m. 15:14.8 (relay) Hungary |
| ancient runner |
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So let’s talk about training systems. All great coaches and scientists gave their lights to world running community and with many ways could supported their training models.For example , Arthur Lydiard , undoubtedly, had great influence at the distance running universe and tried to spread his ideas by writing books, traveling all over the world and the result of them was to be established the Lydiard running school.The same happened with Coe/Martin theories,Gerschler,Van Aaken, Daniel, Renato Canova and all of these are very good for the running(we can studying their aspects, agree or not about them and become better as running coaches) The only one who never wrote or talked about his training system was coach Igloi.A coach with Olympians ,World ;Europeans andAmerican records holders.Of course that was his choice and nobody could blame him about it.But what was his training? Many believed that was interval training (specific term “controlled interval”)Is it that true?What kind of interval is this when the runner covers 20-25km in every session? What kind of interval is this with many km run at easy pace on grass between hard reps?Is it interval when the runner runs 10 laps (4km) with many 120-150-100 with speed variations, sometimes that been done two or three in the session?Is it interval when the runner in one session put in stimulation every body system(aerobic, anaerobic glycolitic, anerobic alactic)? I am sure that is a system which needs to be more searching and discussing |
| 3000SC |
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training of Stanislav Jungwirth, first man who run under 3:40 on 1500m ther is training sample from february 1957. 4.2.1957 A.M. 10x100m + 5x150m + 5x100m + 10x100m P.M. 20x100m strides main set: 6x150m + 6x250m + 6x150m + 6x250m + 6x150m 5.2.1957 A.M. 3x1000m+3x500m+3x1000m+3x500m (in park)tempo work-not hard 6.2.1957 A.M. 10x100m strides main set: 5x200 + 5x300 +5x200m, 10x100m strides P.M. 10x100m strides main set: 5x300m + 2x(4x600m) + 5x200m, 10x100m strides 7.2.1957 A.M. 4x10min. easy run in fores, with 5min. rest 8.2.1957 A.M. strides 10x100m P.M. strides 10x100m main set: 5x100+5x150+5x200+5x150+5x100m 9.2.1957 A.M. strides 10x100m main set: 3x400+3x100+3x400+3x100+3x400+3x100, 10x100m strides 10.2.1957 A.M. 14km fartlek run in forest with 50 100m strides rest betwen intervals in main sets was equel to length of in terval: for 100m rest 15sec., for 200m rest 30sec, for 400m rest 60sec., speed of intervals: 100m strides (easy) 100m - 800m race speed 150m - 1000m race speed 200m - 1500m race speed 250m - betwen 1500 to 3000m race speed 300m - 3000m race speed 400m - betwen 3000 to 5000m arce speed 600m - 5000m race speed every month - length of every tests increased for 1500m from 200m (february) to 400m (may) and 600m (july) he braked WR in 1957 - on very poor dirt track without pacemakers run: 3:38,1 split times: 400m (54,9), 800m (1:54,2), 1000m (2:24) 1200m (2:53,4) his coach was L. Liska wery influenced by Igloy, but he go by own way. |