’84 marathon trials – Running Times

As far as the marathon, I don't think there is any remarkeable difference of effective knowledge today compared to then.

Back then the depth was much greater because the sheer number of runners that were putting it all out there. Today the top guys are faster because the top of the talent pool is forced to abandon full time track and shorter road races due to the overwhelming competition. The marathon gives them at least a chance to win or place.

I'm sure marginal improvements in training methodology has occured, but nothing dramatic.

Has less to do with advances in training and more to do with the fact that running was embedded into pop culture at the time. Imagine training in a time when it was actually cool to do so. I wonder if that's what it's like in Japan right now, and if so, will they be the next big think (2016-2020)?

Having lived thru this period and still running semi-competitively for another ten years, I would say that there was always more depth back during that era. Today there are obviously faster times, but not the depth. I believe we are making strides in diet, training/rest techniques, etc. If you are around enough, I think you'll see this happen in cycles. What is the "new" training method, etc. Pilates=from 1930's, kettle balls/medicine balls=from 1800's, minimalist shoes-look at what was available in the 50's/60's(talk about minimalist!!!). I just don't think there are the numbers today that want to make that sacrifice in their lives to dedicate themselves to the work that is needed to achieve that success. I also believe we are lacking the support systems to bring that level of runner to the previous caliber. I lived in houses of runners working at sporting goods/running stores to make ends meet, we weren't rich by any means, we got along without a lot of extras, but the most important thing was our running. One of our local 1/2 marathon races(3k+ runners) brought in a couple foreigners living in the US. They were paid travel expenses, hotel, etc. One of them was first overall in 1:10 and the other was about 5th in 1:12(flat course also). That money was well...well spent?! The last competitive 1/2-marathon I ran I placed about 15th in 1:06:05, with only Americans finishing ahead of me and all local guys. I lived in the Midwest then. There were only about 1,500 runners in that race. I think we'll always have the onsie and twosie out there, but the depth is gone.

Depth was there in the 80s because people believed that they had a shot at the big time. People would train their butts off because they thought they had a shot at becoming the next Bill Rodgers or AlSal, win big marathons, go to the Olympics and get your face on a box of cereal. Now, with the E. Africans dominating the sport, Americans only think that they have a chance if they are in a full time training group and have sponsorship. Almost no one would think of working a job and training to run as a pro today. But in the 80s, almost everyone was doing that.

I remember they made a documentary movie about the '84 marathon trials called "No Tomorrows".

Precious Roy wrote:

People would train their butts off because they thought they had a shot at becoming the next Bill Rodgers

Very true. Patti Lyons (Catalano) Dillon was another "nobody" who gave up smoking, lost a few pounds and became one of America's best distance runners. Billy Rodgers started to run to work after his motorcycle was stolen one night. Dick Beardsley lowered his marathon best from 2:48 to 2:09 on sheer doggedness (and cryptic insights from Bill Squires) Priscilla Welch took up jogging at age 35, and went on to become an Olympian. Stories like these sparked a fire in so many distance runners - regardless of athletic resume.

I'll bet the declining birthrate over the last 30 years has a lot to do with the differential in depth. Fewer males in the US in that 25-30 age group would account for a lot of the decrease. That and the growing interest in other sports like soccer coupled with the lack of interest in competitive running would likely account for 75% of the differential.

mister demographics wrote:

I'll bet the declining birthrate over the last 30 years has a lot to do with the differential in depth. Fewer males in the US in that 25-30 age group would account for a lot of the decrease. That and the growing interest in other sports like soccer coupled with the lack of interest in competitive running would likely account for 75% of the differential.

I'll bet not.

NO. In the 70's and 80's there were a lot of runners training just like the Olympians because they loved the training and they wanted to see how fast they could be. Even if is was 2:40, 2:30, 2:20, it didn't matter they got a lot of enjoyment from what they could accomplish and they did it because they loved it. There was no monetary incentive.

A local guy I know (who is in his late 70s) started running because of the running boom. Within a few years, he was doing 100 mpw and finally broke 3 hours in the marathon at 48 years old. It wasn't just the elites who ran a lot. The culture back then was to just keep running more and more miles to get better and if you were serious about running a marathon, 80-100 miles minimum was what you had to do.

Also those guys running solid marathons would be the same guys you would see at all the roadraces pounding out fast 5 milers and 10ks.

The Running Boom was a perfect storm of demographics, U.S. competitiveness before the African Wave, popular culture, commercial promotion, entire generations shifting focus to health and fitness, etc.. Most or all of these factors had crested and were in decline by 1990. I should know, I was seriously injured in 1981 and moved on to other, lower impact sports before resurrecting my running career in my 40's.

I had a very MINOR injury in 84 but because the sport was so new, nobody knew what was wrong and I didn't run for 18 years. Other than a non-running accident, I have been back almost 10 years now.

Burnout was the big term that everyone wanted to attribute to good runners who quit but it was more about getting injuries that nobody knew how to treat. By the time a lot of them healed naturally, running wasn't an interest anymore.

Back then it was all about racing and not just doing it to cross something off the list or raise $ for a charity.

You could go to a 5k, run 15:30 and place 15th.

During those times, a large coke at McDonalds was 16oz and we as a society weren't on the verge of being a group of Type II diabetics either

I remember running with guys like Dan Rechner and some others when they were doing tempo runs and I'd hop in for a few miles as a HS'er.

There was more of a societal push towards being good then just finishing. Times mattered.

Masters Fattie wrote:

Back then it was all about racing and not just doing it to cross something off the list or raise $ for a charity.

You could go to a 5k, run 15:30 and place 15th.

During those times, a large coke at McDonalds was 16oz and we as a society weren't on the verge of being a group of Type II diabetics either

I remember running with guys like Dan Rechner and some others when they were doing tempo runs and I'd hop in for a few miles as a HS'er.

There was more of a societal push towards being good then just finishing. Times mattered.

I was only in high school in 84, but I don't recall many 5K road races (10Ks and 5M) were the typical distances. Now it is hard to find a 10K.

Masters Fattie wrote:

You could go to a 5k, run 15:30 and place 15th.

I never heard of anyone running 5k in 1984 unless it was on a track.

I lived through the era and there are a lot of good points made here. I saw a decline in the willingness to train. A lot of that was attributed to Runners World, and that's where RW got its bad name- the do more with less thoeries that were meant for the hobby jogger but were applied to the high school kids.

I remember one mother, in the 90's, complaining that our high school team ran too much and should be playing more soccer and frisbie!

OK, that attitude started to die, kids were willing to run more, times are getting better.

We also have, and this was mentioned, a culture of finishing is good enough. Back in the 70's/80's people who ran the marathon trained and ran it to run a PR. They gave their all- that could vary. If you work 40-50 HPW you're not going to train 80-100 MPW. You work with what you have and get the most out of it.

Now, run as little as possible, plan on walking breaks and get a finisher's medal and you're great.

Races were seen as races, I don't remember too many "just wanting to finish" folks showing up.

Yep. This pretty much nails it. This and running boom baby. The "BQ we're all winners" culture really didn't dominate. Running fast times did. I was a local class runner at best who ran a 5:24 pace at Bay to Breakers and barely broke the top 100. I barely beat three Olympic class women.

I felt like a piker because I only ran 65-70 mpw. The runners I knew were all trying to run as fast as they were capable of running not run six hours at Boston and blog about it.

I am not saying one is better than the other but the running boom of the 70's and 80's was more tailored to fast running and depth of fields than today. In the 21st century running is a bit like extending the NFL so that 16-18 team make the post season. So there are a lot of 6-10 teams out there who are playing a 17th game.

My running club was very competitive in the boom years. Today some of the faster runners ask us old guys how we ran those times.

Well for one, we ran a great deal more and we ran harder day to day.

Some of us are still around but were pretty beat up. But I wouldn't trade it to be young again and two-three minutes slower at 10K today.

Lexmark wrote:

Races were seen as races, I don't remember too many "just wanting to finish" folks showing up.

You got it!

We ran races to race, to challenge ourselves and to see how fast we could run or who we could beat. I hitched a ride with someone to Peachtree in '81 and ran 29:30 then hitchhiked back to New hampshire the next morning after a quick 10 mile run with a stop in Virginia for another 5 miles. Was willing to do whatever it took and loved it.

I remember going to Fla. for spring break in 1980 and sleeping on beaches with my teammates, getting in 100 plus that week, the last night we were there we slept in a parking lot in Orlando where they were holding a 10k race the next morning. Some pretty good local guys were there and some guy with a Great Britain warm-up showed up, turned out to be Chris Stewart, we battled it out for 4 1/2 miles before he put me away, then we hopped in the car and drove back to NH.