If the bank owns my house, why do I have to pay property tax?

No, you own the house. You owe the bank money (and if you don't pay, they can take your house).

They don't. You own the house. The last warranty deed on the property was to you. However, they have filed a mortgage. The mortgage places a lien on the property, and should you default on your payments on the loan, they (and other lien holders) have a right to initiate the foreclosure process on the property. They (or the highest bidder) can then buy it at a sheriff's sale in which case they will get a sheriff's deed for the property. After that there is even a redemption period in which the original owner can get the property back by buying the mortgage and fees off. Well, that's Michigan, but other states tend to be somewhat similar. And its a little more complicated then that, but to sum it up: they do not own your house. Placing a lien on it is a far step from owning it.

So could I shoot anyone (legally) who tries to take it from me? (theoretically speaking)

Not dead yet wrote:

So could I shoot anyone (legally) who tries to take it from me? (theoretically speaking)

Ignore Eminent Domain for the moment.

Not dead yet wrote:

So could I shoot anyone (legally) who tries to take it from me? (theoretically speaking)

Sure, but a bank won't take it from you until they are the legal owner (through the sheriff's deed). At that point they can shoot you for being on it (theoretically speaking). You can stay in it until then (unless it is legally deemed that you abandoned the property, then I think the locks are allowed to be changed on it)

Also, please remember that real life is different from what you see on TV. It's not like you miss one payment and then the bank comes unannounced to your door and starts moving all your stuff out.

And to clarify, you are actually still the owner until the redemption period is over, not the date of the sheriff sale. You can even live in it until the end of the redemption period, I believe.

they don't wrote:

And to clarify, you are actually still the owner until the redemption period is over, not the date of the sheriff sale. You can even live in it until the end of the redemption period, I believe.

So it is possible to give up your constitutional right of ownership of property through a contract with the bank? In other words, in the fifth ammendment there are a couple of ways to lose ownership of property, but it is also possible to give up that right a third way, by contract with a private party ( not mentioned in the constitution )?

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, ___without due process of law___; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Without due process of the law. Pretty sure foreclosure proceedings fit within the due process of the law.

Not dead yet wrote:

they don't wrote:

And to clarify, you are actually still the owner until the redemption period is over, not the date of the sheriff sale. You can even live in it until the end of the redemption period, I believe.

So it is possible to give up your constitutional right of ownership of property through a contract with the bank? In other words, in the fifth ammendment there are a couple of ways to lose ownership of property, but it is also possible to give up that right a third way, by contract with a private party ( not mentioned in the constitution )?

And, to go back to my first post, you didn't give up "right of ownership of property through a contract with the bank". You signed an agreement that if you defaulted on the loan, the bank is able to, using the due process of the law, eventually gain ownership of the property. At the time of signing the mortgage and up until, at earliest about a year after you miss a payment, you still have ownership of the property.

What you quoted pertains to the government, not third parties. What I can't quite get is whether a person actually owns the property. Either the individual has full rights to the property guaranteed by the Constitution or not. States can make all the laws they want governing real estate, but they cannot override the Constitution. So either you have full rights and the only way to remove those rights are the two conditions of Eminent Domain or you don't own the property ( the lien holder does) and the tenant should not be responsible for property tax.

I would assume that you resolve that issue in this way: property ownership depends on contracts, non payment of which transfers ownership in lieu of stipulated funds.

Not dead yet wrote:

What you quoted pertains to the government, not third parties. What I can't quite get is whether a person actually owns the property. Either the individual has full rights to the property guaranteed by the Constitution or not. States can make all the laws they want governing real estate, but they cannot override the Constitution. So either you have full rights and the only way to remove those rights are the two conditions of Eminent Domain or you don't own the property ( the lien holder does) and the tenant should not be responsible for property tax.

Well, if you want to get picky about the specifics, technically it is the government that takes it from you (it called the SHERIFF's deed for a reason). They sell it at an auction, where the lender usually is the highest bidder (but not always).

Real estate ownership follows the deeds.

And what are you talking about tenants should not be responsible for property tax? It happens all the time. Mainly in commercial leases, though.

(I know AP Government class is making you a Constitution guru, but please keep in mind foreclosures have been challenged before by much smarter men than you and I and was upheld)

So don't pay your taxes and try to explain to the government why the Constitution doesn't require it. See what happens and report back.

Also try to figure out what the Constitution is for. It doesn't protect you from creditors. It protects you from certain government abuses.

Is the OWS crew paying any property taxes?

Not dead yet wrote:

I can't quite my get head around this one.

Research "land patents".

Another thing to ponder. Is it really your house if you make a $0 downpayment and you took out the mortgage 2 months ago?

Legally, yes you are owner. But with no equity the economic substance of it however says you are not. Have you lost anything if you get evicted and go back to renting?

You, nor the bank owns your house. What happens if you dont pay your property taxes? The government takes it. So dont kid yourself, nobody owns their house. The government does. They just let you live there and pay rent (taxes). Yes you have a deed that says you own it. You can sell it and make a profit. But at the end of the day after all the smoke clears you do not own your house. That's why I believe their should never be a property tax. Because as long as there's a property tax you do not own your house. That's why the government requires a property tax, to claim ownership. Another big government lie that escapes everyone.

The answer is simple. The banks have made a deal with the government, or the government made a deal with the banks, it doesn't matter either way, and they did it behind closed doors.

The government promises the American dream of owning a home, but you have to pay for a place to live on this Earth that you were born into. Somehow that doesn't make sense to me. The real Americans, the native American Indians did not have to do this. It is a capitalist creation. It is easy for the rich to buy a home, but impossible or difficult for the majority. So the government made laws for a person to borrow money to have their American dream. But the banks said, only if we can write the contract. And here is what the contract says.... the homeowner must agree to pay all expenses, taxes, insurance, HOA's, whatever, even though the bank is the owner until all payments are received, or they will not lend money for mortgages.

And "our" government agreed to this one sided contract! Or all of us would be renters. And that would not look good to sell the "American dream."

And even today, home ownership is slipping away due to corporate/political corruption and greed. There are many people who were born here who do not own land, and many people who were NOT born here who do own land, the rich from other countries. Why? Because, in fact, America is a land that is sold to the highest bidder, not the land that belongs to those who were born here. The American dream is a joke, a farse.

The American government is really acting unconstitutionally. It is not, "by the people, for the people." I don't think it ever was. Since the beginning of time, it has always been government by the rich for the rich, by special interest for special interest. And that is the same for every government whether Communist, Socialist, or Democratic. They ALL start claiming to be the servants of the people, and they ALL grow into the masters of the people, ruled by the one percenters, who truly believe they know more than the 99 percent. But governments are a necessary evil. Unfortunately, without some type of authority, there will be chaos in the streets. Look at Haiti now.

I recently read a quote on how an empire falls but I can't find it right now. It went something like this, Toward the end of an empire, the rich plunder and hoard the wealth and natural resources of the empire and then abandon the empire by moving to another country taking their spoils with them, and leaving the poor and middle classes to pick up the garbage that the rich left behind. I believe that is where the U.S. is right now.